RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Not from "reveal", but from "revelation" or
from Wiktionary:

"NounSingular
revel
Plural
revels


revel (plural revels)

An instance of merrymaking; a celebration.  [quotations ▼]
Our revels now are ended. -- Shakespeare "

Later,
Wolf

Revelation: n.
1. The act of revealing or disclosing.
2. Something revealed, especially a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.

I'll stick with my description . . . :p

[Wolf]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

The guys at Scanspeak really got the name of the Revelator line right. They reveal detail and presence unlike most anything else out there.

Not from "reveal", but from "revelation" or
from Wiktionary:

"NounSingular
revel
Plural
revels


revel (plural revels)

An instance of merrymaking; a celebration.  [quotations ▼]
Our revels now are ended. -- Shakespeare "

Later,
Wolf

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

......and a very different but appealing cabinet design as well!

Thanks. I'll take all the design credit for the cabinet, but D,Rose is the master of fabrication.

What I want to know is why Andy_G hasn't said squat about that cabinet. It's anything but a rectangular box!!! :p

[Mayhem13]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Great Job Pete........and a very different but appealing cabinet design as well! The RS315-HF is THE bass driver IMO.......imagine that baby actively powered and crossed !!!!!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

One last mod. After another few hours of listening, I backed down the mids just a smidge more. Added a 12 Ohm shunt resistor on the mid terminals to pull down the level of the Scan by maybe one more dB. The shunt brought the mid level down across the band much more evenly than by increasing the series padding resistor.

These are now simply "luscious." :D That's the best one-word description I can give. In their present setup, they sound as good to me as anything I've ever heard. Bass performance is stunning, with a deep reach and an effortless presentation. I had a track of Chinese drum recorded in mega HD playing earlier tonight. Wow. Simply wow. Concussive, crisp, floor shaking. I only wish I had more power!!!

The guys at Scanspeak really got the name of the Revelator line right. They reveal detail and presence unlike most anything else out there. Vocal reproduction is so smooth and easy. And the sound of Nils Lofgren's live acoustic guitar in "Steve Don't Go" is as close to perfection as I can imagine. Tory Amos in "Pancake" is riveting, her voice doing harmonic stuff that just makes my jaw drop. I've been limiting myself to 45 minute sessions to keep my ears fresh, but I could just go for hours, especially with really engaging recordings.

I'm now to the point where I like them so much that I don't want to stop listening, disassemble, and then wipe the finish on them. I guess that means I'm done with the XO and will have to force myself to do without for a few days. One day of finish sanding and the first application of tung oil. Another coat the day after that and I should have them playing again. Still trying to come up with a base. Haven't quite decided on a final style yet, but that can be done any time in the next couple months.

Back to the music.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Hi Pete,

The RS315-4 sub is the only driver already bought at this point so my options are open. I'm thinking of using the sub sealed, the tweeter will probably be either the Seas 27TBFCG or the DXT, and for the midrange I'm leaning toward the SB acoustics 15NRX-8 (88dB) or the 4-ohm version at Solen (91dB). My progress is pretty slow though, so by the time I'm able to build it someone else may have done it already. Hmm - that could save me a lot of work :-)

I was wondering...have you added up the price of your crossover yet? Everytime I start thinking about a 3-way design, the crossover starts to get into the range where I think I may as well go for one of the active digital options (behringer/ minidsp, etc). The 8ohm steel-lam inductors at madisound are $24 each!. I know your goal was a passive design, and there are lots of good reasons to do that, but for me, well, I guess I'm on the fence - and looking for an excuse to fall off of it.

And whatever enclosures I make, they're going to have to be a whole lot simpler than what you've got there... I'm still trying to master the rectangle! :-)

Gordon

I've got three iron core (well, a P-core and two iron cores) and two air core inductors in each XO. Then there's the very large poly caps, a pair in each XO and various others. All told, around $100 for each XO. I can definitely see the desire to go active when approaching a three-way. Those low frequency components especially do get quite expensive. But $24 for a iron core inductor? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/psho...66-568&scqty=1 PE's got Mad beat bad.

I've got a good suggestion for you on cabinet materials. Lowe's has MDF stair treads that are the perfect size, and over 1" thick. One edge is routed, but that is easily removed.

[gordoncalder]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Well thank you Gordon. I can't imagine you being the least bit disappointed with the RSS315HF-4 in your three-way. The 8 Ohm version is excellent at reproducing the range from 300Hz down. I can certainly see doing another version of this in a simpler rectangular enclosure with the RS150-4 for the mid for an All Dayton killer 3-way.

What do you have in mind for your project?

Hi Pete,

The RS315-4 sub is the only driver already bought at this point so my options are open. I'm thinking of using the sub sealed, the tweeter will probably be either the Seas 27TBFCG or the DXT, and for the midrange I'm leaning toward the SB acoustics 15NRX-8 (88dB) or the 4-ohm version at Solen (91dB). My progress is pretty slow though, so by the time I'm able to build it someone else may have done it already. Hmm - that could save me a lot of work :-)

I was wondering...have you added up the price of your crossover yet? Everytime I start thinking about a 3-way design, the crossover starts to get into the range where I think I may as well go for one of the active digital options (behringer/ minidsp, etc). The 8ohm steel-lam inductors at madisound are $24 each!. I know your goal was a passive design, and there are lots of good reasons to do that, but for me, well, I guess I'm on the fence - and looking for an excuse to fall off of it.

And whatever enclosures I make, they're going to have to be a whole lot simpler than what you've got there... I'm still trying to master the rectangle! :-)

Gordon

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

After listening to the setup with the extra low end on the EQ simulating what the 4 Ohm driver would do, I just found the extra low end a bit too much. So . . .

Made a couple more mods now that we have some measured data. Woofer level was a little lower than anticipated by about 1dB, so rather than drop a RSS315HF-4 into the mix, I just dropped the level of the mid a little more and altered it's high end roll off somewhat to reduce the peaking between 5 and 6KHz caused by the extended high end of the 15W.

I am really pleased by the result thus far. I'm about ready to call this done, and stick with the 8 Ohm version. Check out the impedance plot, as well as the rest of the sim from measured data. Yeah, I'm throwing away maybe a couple dB of sensitivity, but that's just fine with me. These things rock as is. I don't notice the forward character on some female vocals anymore, and the balance top to bottom seems right.

Another day or two listening and then it's time to finish the cabinets.

[dlneubec]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Hi Pete,

If you guys didn't previously, you might want to try taking some off axis measurements. Often that will can you some things you don't see on axis in terms of any forwardness, etc.

I found a notch was needed on the 15w's I used in the Duo-S, which is a 2-way with 8531K01's (IIRC) and D26nc55 tweet in a shallow (1/2") waveguide, FWIW, though in that case the difference was easy to see in the simulations as well. It was also semi-omni in presentation. I've attached a simulation comparison of that XO with and without the notch on the scan. I don't believe I ever listened to it without the notch, however.

That said, it looks like you've already adressed this issue. I also don't recall any midrange forwardness to Wolf's scandivifias, so I'd say he conquered that issue with some other trickery in his series XO.

I'm glad to see you are getting great results Pete. I'm looking forward to hearing them at Iowa! I've had plans for a couple years to design a similar all passive speaker but with the pair of TC1000's I have instead of the RS315's. I had even thought about pairing them up with the 15w and RS28F, so it could be very similar undertaking and result.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

That looks like just what the Dr. ordered Petey!

So far, so good. Played a bunch of Nora and Sarah McL and have been enjoying the tracks. We may be on to something here.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

That looks like just what the Dr. ordered Petey!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

One thing at a time daddio ... post up the PCD shot of what exactly the .25 vs .5mH does again please. And how for down is the tweeter at resonance?



True dat!

Haven't tried the notch yet.

Before the .25mH change



After the .25mH change. Notice the deeper reverse null.


And a comparison before and after.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'll notch 800 a dB or two and see how it goes. I made the tweeter mod already, and put the .25mH in place of the .5.

One thing at a time daddio ... post up the PCD shot of what exactly the .25 vs .5mH does again please. And how for down is the tweeter at resonance?

And some people have diamond encrusted Rolexes. Doesn't make them crazy . . . doesn't mean they're necessarily more punctual either . . . ;)

True dat!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Exactly, measurement can bite me in this case ... especially since it's not like we sticked to strict best practices measurement protocol.

Just try the EQ'ing first and see what you think. If you like the result I imagine I do have whatever xover parts we'd need.

I'll notch 800 a dB or two and see how it goes. I made the tweeter mod already, and put the .25mH in place of the .5.

I do have some $120 AC power plugs, so maybe just a bit nuts ;)

And some people have diamond encrusted Rolexes. Doesn't make them crazy . . . doesn't mean they're necessarily more punctual either . . . ;)

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'd have thought that the measurements would at least hint that there was excess energy at 800Hz. The graph above shows the opposite, a slight trough at 800Hz.

I don't have the parts on hand to make the notch. Got a pair of 3mH inductors and 18uF caps? It would be easy enough to drop them into the circuit to see what they do. I've got plenty of resistors around to vary the notch depth.

Exactly, measurement can bite me in this case ... especially since it's not like we sticked to strict best practices measurement protocol.

Just try the EQ'ing first and see what you think. If you like the result I imagine I do have whatever xover parts we'd need.

And I don't think you're nuts. Everything you've suggested so far has improved the sound.

I do have some $120 AC power plugs, so maybe just a bit nuts ;)