RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[mike price]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Beautiful grain pattern Pete , that's a great looking set of speakers you got there.

[gordoncalder]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[QUOTE=Pete Schumacher ®;1652318]Well, Ryan (DoubleTap) was by the last couple days, first for some listening, and today for some measuring. Yesterday, he noticed a couple of subtle things needing some attention that today's measurements verified.

First, excessive operator head-space was revealed on the left speaker. I had connected the woofer output to the wrong node on the XO, so only partial filtering of the woofer was taking place, causing some excess midrange on that channel. Easy fix.

Second, the mid/high balance seemed a bit hot, so we backed down the tweeter about 1dB. At that point, we took some measurements. The two traces are of the left and right, though we didn't calibrate the mic distance. Still, pretty close.



The slight dip between 2500 and 4500 is definitely diffraction related, as it filled in when moved off axis.

At this point, we attempted some woofer measurements, but that proved nearly impossible in the room. But what we could glean from the plots is that the woofer is still not quite as sensitive as it could be.

So we played with a bit of EQ in Foobar, boosting the woofer level about 3dB across it's band to 300Hz and doing a bit more listening. We came to the conclusion that the extra sensitivity of the 4 Ohm version would not be too much for where the mid is now. Padding down the mid and tweet another 2dB would be about perfect, but at this point, I am thinking that going with the RSS315HF-4 is the better alternative.

It was a very productive couple of days thanks to Ryan, and these are one step closer to being DONE.

Ryan also has a very nice camera. So here's a shot of one of the speakers with a damp cloth wiped across the veneer to give you all an idea of how these will look when done.


Beautiful job Pete, and I'm sure the sound will equal the looks once the fine tuning is done. I have a pair of the RSS315HF-4 to use in a somewhat similar manner, so I'm following your progress with interest. This will be a reference thread for me,

thanks for sharing the info,

Gordon

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Well, Ryan (DoubleTap) was by the last couple days, first for some listening, and today for some measuring. Yesterday, he noticed a couple of subtle things needing some attention that today's measurements verified.

First, excessive operator head-space was revealed on the left speaker. I had connected the woofer output to the wrong node on the XO, so only partial filtering of the woofer was taking place, causing some excess midrange on that channel. Easy fix.

Second, the mid/high balance seemed a bit hot, so we backed down the tweeter about 1dB. At that point, we took some measurements. The two traces are of the left and right, though we didn't calibrate the mic distance. Still, pretty close.



The slight dip between 2500 and 4500 is definitely diffraction related, as it filled in when moved off axis.

At this point, we attempted some woofer measurements, but that proved nearly impossible in the room. But what we could glean from the plots is that the woofer is still not quite as sensitive as it could be.

So we played with a bit of EQ in Foobar, boosting the woofer level about 3dB across it's band to 300Hz and doing a bit more listening. We came to the conclusion that the extra sensitivity of the 4 Ohm version would not be too much for where the mid is now. Padding down the mid and tweet another 2dB would be about perfect, but at this point, I am thinking that going with the RSS315HF-4 is the better alternative.

It was a very productive couple of days thanks to Ryan, and these are one step closer to being DONE.

Ryan also has a very nice camera. So here's a shot of one of the speakers with a damp cloth wiped across the veneer to give you all an idea of how these will look when done.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Wednesday should be fine ... I'll bring some other goodies to hook up and try.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Pick a day this week Pete and I'll come by for a few hours ...

How about Wednesday?

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Pick a day this week Pete and I'll come by for a few hours ...

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I got some room treatment put up in the unfinished (bare) living room. Makeshift for sure, but far better than nothing. I have another panel standing a few feet away from the left enclosure. The improvement was immediate.

Celtic Woman, A New Journey was playing this morning. Great recording with real dynamics and absolutely beautiful voices.



Track 7, Dulaman, has some drumming on it that just begs to be part of a "testing CD" with extended low end, great transients, and complimentary instrumentation. Track 8 has luscious harmonies and some deep lows.

The stuffing in each cabinet was revisited, with exactly 2 pounds of fiberfill in each enclosure. Before that, there might have been about a pound. It's hard to say what effect it may have had, but it's certain that it won't do anything but improve upper midbass performance.

Using Foobar and the spectrum display, I'm able to track where the vocal fundamentals are falling, and when they hover around the crossover point between woofer and mid, I'm not detecting any shift in timbre or loss in detail. That's a confirmation, to me anyway, that the RSS315 is definitely up to the task, complimenting the Scan mid quite nicely. The bottom end is just so solid, and even when it's shaking the room, there's no loss of clarity in the midbass.

I sure would appreciate a couple of visitors ears to confirm what I'm hearing before I call it done. I'm anxious to get started on the finish work, but I'd really like to make sure the voicing is done first.

Anyone in the St. Louis area care to stop by for a listen? :D

[Wolf]

Re: No Neutriks??

I just can't seem to justify anything costing more than the Dayton polys. I know you're among those who like the uber caps, DoubleTap being another. Maybe when I upgrade the tweeter to the Scanspeak 6600 one day, I'll spring for the uber caps and re-do the XO.

I'll bring them to Iowa for sure. I just hope I can get them as nice looking as Dan's stuff. His finish is always incredible.

I don't always advocate it though. If you have a ton of parts with lesser-costly drivers, Daytons are probably the norm. I do prefer the CrossCaps/ERSE PulseX (cheaper!). The normal for me is the Z-Standard/CrossCap/PulseX/Solen/ASC/WIMA/Clarity PX range- of which none are overly costly.

And remember- except for the 20uF Clarity SA, the 80uF Solen/CrossCap and Silver Z-caps in my test, everything is less than $20 each. I'll also say that I can't readily afford Auricaps (DoubleTap), anything F/F (but Daytons or the occasional 0.1uF bypass), or oils (except ASC and some cheapies); which means I'm just as thrifty as most everone else is.

I like the P-Cores and use 18/20 AWG air where possible. I've used foils in 3 projects, so I've only bought 6 foil-coils; hardly a regular purchase there. I used the C-Coils (1.5mH were $22 when I bought them!) in the AR-SXO for the Scandivifias, and the sound was noticably better in the bass. That project I also felt warranted better parts. The 4.7mH C-Coils were door prizes that I also have, but hope to use them soon....

Better *caps (not outrageously priced) are not really costly, and might sound better to the listener. I will hopefuly be able to make Iowa this year, and do a very formal Cap-Test situation with forms, etc.

Later,
Wolf

* I know I can tell between some different components, but actual identification might not be as easy for certain brands, etc. Better being just a 'better grade', not a wallet-killer.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: No Neutriks??

I hope you can keep the wiring straight....

I would think with those drivers you would spring for the uber-parts (Neutriks, caps, whatever), even if only just a little.
Later,
Wolf

Wiring is no problem. All Dayton polys, 20ga air cores, 18ga iron cores, P-cores. Wirewound resistors.

I don't know if I could hear a difference Wolf, let alone determine which would be better. I just can't seem to justify anything costing more than the Dayton polys. I know you're among those who like the uber caps, DoubleTap being another. Maybe when I upgrade the tweeter to the Scanspeak 6600 one day, I'll spring for the uber caps and re-do the XO.

I doubt they'll be ready for Dayton. After a bit more listening and final measurement, it's off to finish work, sanding, oil and stain, then wax. I'm probably going to veneer the backs, so there's that too. Perhaps a bit of interior treatment, extra brace or two. It's unlikely they'd be finished before the event, unless things go quicker than I anticipate, which isn't usually the case. I've got to figure out a safe way to move them to events as well. They are ridiculously heavy and hard to maneuver.

I'll bring them to Iowa for sure. I just hope I can get them as nice looking as Dan's stuff. His finish is always incredible.

[Wolf]

No Neutriks??

I hope you can keep the wiring straight....

I would think with those drivers you would spring for the uber-parts (Neutriks, caps, whatever), even if only just a little.
Later,
Wolf

[dlneubec]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Looks like a home run, Pete, can't wait to hear them!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Second XO assembled and playing.

These have been sitting in the living room, which has been in disarray during a simple remodel of the room, and playing through the foyer and into the family room. Just moved all the furniture to where it belongs. The speakers are to their final spots.

The room is far from finished. Crown molding, drapery, artwork, and I want to add a few acoustic panels.

Both systems are playing now, with matching XOs that include a steep notch for the RSS315 at 1800Hz, and the bass performance is simply yummy. Superb definition, and it slams nicely when called upon.

Can the RSS315 anchor a passive 3-way?

YES!!! :D

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Two of them playing finally! And guess who showed up to sit between the speakers when I fired up the pair? That's right, my voicing partner, Zoe the cat.

I love this hobby.

Now, the problem of getting them to their final positions in the room . . . anyone with an anti gravity machine? 120lbs with no handles is a pain. :eek:

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'm not such a good painter but I'm still shying away from veneering fearing I won't be able to look nice.

Applying veneer is all about preparation. You want a smoooooth, flat surface, free of dust. I used contact cement on my veneer projects. Spread some on the veneer and the surface you're adhering to, and there you go. Real tough to screw up. Trim away the excess and move on to the next side, leaving the "show sides" for last.

The hard part for me was always the finish, getting it to look Neubecker smooth so that a gloss finish doesn't look like fun house mirror on acid.

[bbcmp1979]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'm not such a good painter but I'm still shying away from veneering fearing I won't be able to look nice.