RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

WoW...

I'm catching myself saying that quite a bit during each listening session. :D

I hope I can do justice with the finish. I'm a total noob when it comes to finishing veneer. :o

I broke out Dire Straits' "Brothers in Arms" CD/DVD, a dual side release that has DVD audio on one side and CD audio on the other.

WOW . . .

Assembly starts today on the XOs.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Gotta get you a new camera Pete ... or somebody to take better pics ;)

Finishing that veneer will be a piece of cake. I'm just worried about it staying stuck after we're done. FYI I'm thinking we'll add the TransTint Red Mahogany directly to the Tung Oil - for the large panels that'll give us a bit more work time to make sure the tint is applied evenly. Probably just one wipe of that then wait a few days since pure tung takes time to dry. For a 'finish' I'm thinking just a hand rubbed wax like Black Bison or Briwax. I really don't want to use a hard finish since the surface tension during drying could cause the PSA veneer to pull up. A rubbed wax finish doesn't provide much protection, but has a very nice natural look. I think it would work fine here since you don't have any flat horizontal surfaces for dust to collect on, and there won't be any crap like lamps sitting on top marring up the finish.

Another thing, I think all sanding should be done by hand unfortunately. Power sanding will create a lot of heat, and more chance for the PSA to delaminate.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Gotta get you a new camera Pete ... or somebody to take better pics ;)

Finishing that veneer will be a piece of cake. I'm just worried about it staying stuck after we're done. FYI I'm thinking we'll add the TransTint Red Mahogany directly to the Tung Oil - for the large panels that'll give us a bit more work time to make sure the tint is applied evenly. Probably just one wipe of that then wait a few days since pure tung takes time to dry. For a 'finish' I'm thinking just a hand rubbed wax like Black Bison or Briwax. I really don't want to use a hard finish since the surface tension during drying could cause the PSA veneer to pull up. A rubbed wax finish doesn't provide much protection, but has a very nice natural look. I think it would work fine here since you don't have any flat horizontal surfaces for dust to collect on, and there won't be any crap like lamps sitting on top marring up the finish.

Another thing, I think all sanding should be done by hand unfortunately. Power sanding will create a lot of heat, and more chance for the PSA to delaminate.

It's a $60 camera . . . cut me some slack. :p

I've got some extra veneer laying around. Should I put some of it on a hunk of MDF for testing the methodology?

I've got no problem hand sanding these beasts. They're pretty darn smooth as is, and should not take too long to prep for the finish. There's also a some small chips that will need to be filled along an edge or two.

I know you think I should get some veneer and finish the back panels too. Guess we'll need to take a trip to the hardwood store and see if they have something to compliment the existing veneer.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

It's a $60 camera . . . cut me some slack. :p

I've got some extra veneer laying around. Should I put some of it on a hunk of MDF for testing the methodology?

I've got no problem hand sanding these beasts. They're pretty darn smooth as is, and should not take too long to prep for the finish. There's also a some small chips that will need to be filled along an edge or two.

I know you think I should get some veneer and finish the back panels too. Guess we'll need to take a trip to the hardwood store and see if they have something to compliment the existing veneer.

Yea, laying some up on a piece of MDF would make test finishing easier. The hand sanding will take more elbow grease than you think, there's a point where when sanding with 300-400 grit that the surface takes on a slight sheen ... it all has to get to that point. And even though it feels smooth now, you'll be surprised how much effort it takes. I suppose we could use the palm sander for most of it, if we go slow and don't hit any area long enough for it to heat up.

I'd say that's a Balanced Book match, finding some bal book Walnut is no problem ... pretty much every veneer supplier will carry some.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Here's the XO layout. Includes space for added notch filter components for the RSS315. The white area is 8.5" x 11". Print out the page, lay it on a nice piece of thin oak veneered plywood, and drill out the holes for the leads. All the wiring will be on the back side for a nice clean look. Eventually everything will get glued down once I'm totally set on the final values.

[bbcmp1979]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'm not such a good painter but I'm still shying away from veneering fearing I won't be able to look nice.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'm not such a good painter but I'm still shying away from veneering fearing I won't be able to look nice.

Applying veneer is all about preparation. You want a smoooooth, flat surface, free of dust. I used contact cement on my veneer projects. Spread some on the veneer and the surface you're adhering to, and there you go. Real tough to screw up. Trim away the excess and move on to the next side, leaving the "show sides" for last.

The hard part for me was always the finish, getting it to look Neubecker smooth so that a gloss finish doesn't look like fun house mirror on acid.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Two of them playing finally! And guess who showed up to sit between the speakers when I fired up the pair? That's right, my voicing partner, Zoe the cat.

I love this hobby.

Now, the problem of getting them to their final positions in the room . . . anyone with an anti gravity machine? 120lbs with no handles is a pain. :eek:

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Second XO assembled and playing.

These have been sitting in the living room, which has been in disarray during a simple remodel of the room, and playing through the foyer and into the family room. Just moved all the furniture to where it belongs. The speakers are to their final spots.

The room is far from finished. Crown molding, drapery, artwork, and I want to add a few acoustic panels.

Both systems are playing now, with matching XOs that include a steep notch for the RSS315 at 1800Hz, and the bass performance is simply yummy. Superb definition, and it slams nicely when called upon.

Can the RSS315 anchor a passive 3-way?

YES!!! :D

[dlneubec]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Looks like a home run, Pete, can't wait to hear them!

[Wolf]

No Neutriks??

I hope you can keep the wiring straight....

I would think with those drivers you would spring for the uber-parts (Neutriks, caps, whatever), even if only just a little.
Later,
Wolf

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: No Neutriks??

I hope you can keep the wiring straight....

I would think with those drivers you would spring for the uber-parts (Neutriks, caps, whatever), even if only just a little.
Later,
Wolf

Wiring is no problem. All Dayton polys, 20ga air cores, 18ga iron cores, P-cores. Wirewound resistors.

I don't know if I could hear a difference Wolf, let alone determine which would be better. I just can't seem to justify anything costing more than the Dayton polys. I know you're among those who like the uber caps, DoubleTap being another. Maybe when I upgrade the tweeter to the Scanspeak 6600 one day, I'll spring for the uber caps and re-do the XO.

I doubt they'll be ready for Dayton. After a bit more listening and final measurement, it's off to finish work, sanding, oil and stain, then wax. I'm probably going to veneer the backs, so there's that too. Perhaps a bit of interior treatment, extra brace or two. It's unlikely they'd be finished before the event, unless things go quicker than I anticipate, which isn't usually the case. I've got to figure out a safe way to move them to events as well. They are ridiculously heavy and hard to maneuver.

I'll bring them to Iowa for sure. I just hope I can get them as nice looking as Dan's stuff. His finish is always incredible.

[Wolf]

Re: No Neutriks??

I just can't seem to justify anything costing more than the Dayton polys. I know you're among those who like the uber caps, DoubleTap being another. Maybe when I upgrade the tweeter to the Scanspeak 6600 one day, I'll spring for the uber caps and re-do the XO.

I'll bring them to Iowa for sure. I just hope I can get them as nice looking as Dan's stuff. His finish is always incredible.

I don't always advocate it though. If you have a ton of parts with lesser-costly drivers, Daytons are probably the norm. I do prefer the CrossCaps/ERSE PulseX (cheaper!). The normal for me is the Z-Standard/CrossCap/PulseX/Solen/ASC/WIMA/Clarity PX range- of which none are overly costly.

And remember- except for the 20uF Clarity SA, the 80uF Solen/CrossCap and Silver Z-caps in my test, everything is less than $20 each. I'll also say that I can't readily afford Auricaps (DoubleTap), anything F/F (but Daytons or the occasional 0.1uF bypass), or oils (except ASC and some cheapies); which means I'm just as thrifty as most everone else is.

I like the P-Cores and use 18/20 AWG air where possible. I've used foils in 3 projects, so I've only bought 6 foil-coils; hardly a regular purchase there. I used the C-Coils (1.5mH were $22 when I bought them!) in the AR-SXO for the Scandivifias, and the sound was noticably better in the bass. That project I also felt warranted better parts. The 4.7mH C-Coils were door prizes that I also have, but hope to use them soon....

Better *caps (not outrageously priced) are not really costly, and might sound better to the listener. I will hopefuly be able to make Iowa this year, and do a very formal Cap-Test situation with forms, etc.

Later,
Wolf

* I know I can tell between some different components, but actual identification might not be as easy for certain brands, etc. Better being just a 'better grade', not a wallet-killer.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I got some room treatment put up in the unfinished (bare) living room. Makeshift for sure, but far better than nothing. I have another panel standing a few feet away from the left enclosure. The improvement was immediate.

Celtic Woman, A New Journey was playing this morning. Great recording with real dynamics and absolutely beautiful voices.



Track 7, Dulaman, has some drumming on it that just begs to be part of a "testing CD" with extended low end, great transients, and complimentary instrumentation. Track 8 has luscious harmonies and some deep lows.

The stuffing in each cabinet was revisited, with exactly 2 pounds of fiberfill in each enclosure. Before that, there might have been about a pound. It's hard to say what effect it may have had, but it's certain that it won't do anything but improve upper midbass performance.

Using Foobar and the spectrum display, I'm able to track where the vocal fundamentals are falling, and when they hover around the crossover point between woofer and mid, I'm not detecting any shift in timbre or loss in detail. That's a confirmation, to me anyway, that the RSS315 is definitely up to the task, complimenting the Scan mid quite nicely. The bottom end is just so solid, and even when it's shaking the room, there's no loss of clarity in the midbass.

I sure would appreciate a couple of visitors ears to confirm what I'm hearing before I call it done. I'm anxious to get started on the finish work, but I'd really like to make sure the voicing is done first.

Anyone in the St. Louis area care to stop by for a listen? :D

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Pick a day this week Pete and I'll come by for a few hours ...