RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

[DjDisturbed]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Those really look great . I have been thinking about buying that tweeter and using it with a Peerless 830875. I was planning on using the RSS315HF-4 or the RSS265HF-4 for the woofer duties.

Now that you had time to listen to them , what is thoughts on that tweeter ? It looks like a great deal with the specs. listed on PE's website.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Zeroing in . . .

Got Cream Live DVD playing on it now. Sounding real, real good.

I lowered the XO point on the mid/tweet to 2200Hz, and in doing so got a LOT better phase tracking over a wider range. The transfer function is quite shallow for both mid and tweeter, almost a 1st order type of slope throughout the overlap region.

[Jeff B.]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Let me start off by clearing up what I did. The smaller cap value was on the woofer, not the mid, which increased the output in the 200-400Hz range, bringing back the requisite "thickness" to the upright bass and vocals that was missing with the larger cap value, rolling off the woofer a bit too early.

Jeff did indeed have it backward, thinking I was removing "chestiness" when I was actually bringing it up. No big deal. Doesn't change the fact that Jeff is a friggin' genius. ;)

Afterward, I also reduced the midrange cap value, from 125 to 100uF, pushing up the XO point just a bit for the mid. The RSS filling that range just seems to add more life than having the mid cover those lower frequencies. Everything is just coming to life now.

Lower midbass is just scrumtrulescent

You're right. I thought you lowered the highpass cap on the midrange. Lowering either cap, woofer shunt or midrange highpass, would effectively raise the crossover point, but would indeed change the summed level differently. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I've got about 3.3 cubic feet behind the RSS315-8, with a PR tuning the whole thing to 17Hz. That produces response very much like a sealed box version, but with the advantage of increase power handling at the lowest frequencies. F3 is 30Hz, with F10 at 14Hz. In room bass should be extended well into the low 20s. That alignment will reach Xmax with 200W at 30Hz, and 106dB. A pair in-room will be able to easily exceed 110dB at 30Hz, and below.

[Mayhem13]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

I'll be adding my sealed stereo bass bins using the 315HF any day now.....driven with an NHT B-20 amp and fed with my AVR's L and R pre-outs. The B-20 has selectable LP filters up to 240hz 1st and second order. I should be able to get a smooth blend to my sealed mains and i suspect your adjective means the 315 sounds really nice in the 250hz range. What volume enclosure did you use for the 315?

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Let me start off by clearing up what I did. The smaller cap value was on the woofer, not the mid, which increased the output in the 200-400Hz range, bringing back the requisite "thickness" to the upright bass and vocals that was missing with the larger cap value, rolling off the woofer a bit too early.

Jeff did indeed have it backward, thinking I was removing "chestiness" when I was actually bringing it up. No big deal. Doesn't change the fact that Jeff is a friggin' genius. ;)

Afterward, I also reduced the midrange cap value, from 125 to 100uF, pushing up the XO point just a bit for the mid. The RSS filling that range just seems to add more life than having the mid cover those lower frequencies. Everything is just coming to life now.

Lower midbass is just scrumtrulescent

[Mayhem13]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Either way....this is a really great start to an awesome project Pete. What's you listening impressions of the lower midbass of the RS315?

[davepellegrene]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

He didn't change the crossover point from 200 t0 250 as much as he changed the summed level at 200Hz. By lowering it, with the smaller cap on the mid, the crossover shifts higher as a result. The real difference here isn't the change from 200 to 250, it's the fact that he has less combined energy at 200 Hz, which may have been adding some thickness to the vocals. If both a 200Hz and 250Hz crossover are optimized for a flat summation, then I doubt you would be able to tell much difference at all.

Ok makes sense on not being able to hear the difference if both are optimized for a flat response. The rest is confussing me. By lowering the cap on the woofer doesn't this add more energy at 200-250Hz. So wouldn't this add more thickness to the vocals?
Dave

[Jeff B.]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Ah! I was wondering what the difference may be in changing woofer/ mid cross from 200 up to 300. I wasn't sure what to listen for.
Dave

He didn't change the crossover point from 200 t0 250 as much as he changed the summed level at 200Hz. By lowering it, with the smaller cap on the mid, the crossover shifts higher as a result. The real difference here isn't the change from 200 to 250, it's the fact that he has less combined energy at 200 Hz, which may have been adding some thickness to the vocals. If both a 200Hz and 250Hz crossover are optimized for a flat summation, then I doubt you would be able to tell much difference at all.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Here's what I'm listening to at the moment.

I'm really liking the looks of the transfer functions. XO points are currently at 250 and 2800, second order.

[davepellegrene]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Another day of listening yesterday. Still haven't quite got the woof/mid XO right. The upright bass just didn't sound "there" like it usually does in Dianna Krall's rendition of "Cry Me a River."

So, back to PCD to see what a slight relaxation of the woofer XO capacitor does. 100uF to 66uF pushes the XO from 200Hz, to 250Hz, with only slight changes to the FR, so in goes the change.

Suddenly, the life has come back into the upright basses!!! The "chesty" feel in voices is better now as well. Now I have to watch the breakup in the RSS more closely as the filter is still only second order. I may have to add a notch to hear for any differences, but that comes later.

Might try just a tad less tweet level as well, but only after a few more hours of listening. Crossover right now is right around 2800, with shallow slopes, and a very wide v-shaped reverse null.

11 components in the XO still.

Ah! I was wondering what the difference may be in changing woofer/ mid cross from 200 up to 300. I wasn't sure what to listen for.
Dave

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Another day of listening yesterday. Still haven't quite got the woof/mid XO right. The upright bass just didn't sound "there" like it usually does in Dianna Krall's rendition of "Cry Me a River."

So, back to PCD to see what a slight relaxation of the woofer XO capacitor does. 100uF to 66uF pushes the XO from 200Hz, to 250Hz, with only slight changes to the FR, so in goes the change.

Suddenly, the life has come back into the upright basses!!! The "chesty" feel in voices is better now as well. Now I have to watch the breakup in the RSS more closely as the filter is still only second order. I may have to add a notch to hear for any differences, but that comes later.

Might try just a tad less tweet level as well, but only after a few more hours of listening. Crossover right now is right around 2800, with shallow slopes, and a very wide v-shaped reverse null.

11 components in the XO still.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Added a bit of padding to the mid/tweet section today. The current implementation on the Scan is a 2nd order HP using 3mH and 120uF and a 1st order LP using .7mH and a 6.2uF plus 4 Ohm zobel. To this, I added 1.2 Ohm in series with the 15ga input inductor.

Tweeter HP is 6uF and .5mH shunt, with 1.2 Ohm in series with the RS28. This combines with the mid for a very wide range overlap centered at 2900Hz, LR2 acoustic slopes.

Woofer XO still 8mH and 100uF, for a total of 11 components so far.

I think I'll build the second XO to match this one to do the stereo voicing with speakers in place.

So far, these are turning out to meet the aural expectations I've had from the beginning.

[DoubleTap]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Wow . . .

That's the nicest behavior I've ever seen from a midrange of any flavor.

Believe me, I'm having fun auditioning them. :D

Got any off axis data?

And what size baffle is that on?

Sure Pete, here ya go ;)

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/15W_4531G00.pdf

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: RSS315HF-4 as the anchor of a 3-way???

Pete- the BassLines had TD12H in them, and they were passive.

The 'Blades' had an active RSS265 in the bottom.

Later,
Wolf

Oops, got all them B's crossed up.

thanks for the correction.