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follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

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  • DoubleTap
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    You mean because of the crossover point is not low enough and summed up response at the listener position may have a pick around 2k? May be I should bring the point 2 or 3 db lower.
    Anyways, got 2.7 coils today. Listening impressions and verifications will be coming soon. :p
    I said that because it looks like you have an extra db or 2 in the 400-800hz range ...

    I should qualify, my idea of 'forward' is when vocals come forward in the soundstage and sound in your face. My experience is that happens when you have a hair of extra energy in the mid-upper vocal range. It can be alright when vocals do that, but since brass can be in the same range, when it does that, it can be painful.

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  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by DoubleTap View Post
    This combo looks like it'll be a bit forward sounding based on your sim ...
    You mean because of the crossover point is not low enough and summed up response at the listener position may have a pick around 2k? May be I should bring the point 2 or 3 db lower.
    Anyways, got 2.7 coils today. Listening impressions and verifications will be coming soon. :p

    Leave a comment:


  • DoubleTap
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    and ZA14/vifa
    This combo looks like it'll be a bit forward sounding based on your sim ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Deward Hastings
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    On the other hand I've been asked if the port automatically prevent mid range from leaking (what?? why?)
    Too much looking at ray diagrams, maybe (and in that context understandable). If the reflected "ray" of sound doesn't hit the port opening it can't get out (that way)? A beginner may not "get it" that pressure waves in the box don't work like that, or that the driver cone is transparent to (moved by) reflected pressure waves also. A mistaken understanding of mechanism can lead to (will often lead to) a mistaken expectation of result . . .

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  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    agreed, always a set of trade offs like anything else.
    let me see if Owens Corning 703 will do the trick.
    The graphs that I posted may be of use to some. If you are seasoned speaker builder, this info is probably something that you've been through before. This is just an open project. On the other hand I've been asked if the port automatically prevent mid range from leaking (what?? why?)

    Leave a comment:


  • Deward Hastings
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    now, this is what happens then you put padding on the walls. a fundamental standing wave is still there (equal in length to the longest dimension, about 11 inches in this case) but lower in magnitude. Padding is only so effective.
    Padding "on the walls" is much less effective at midrange frequencies than the same absorbing material more "in the box". Rigid fiberglass or rock wool batts criss-crossing the box are far more effective than loose batting. But there is one of those connundrums that appear so often in audio design . . . if you want the same frequency response and freedom from resonance that you get on a test baffle then you have to *really* stuff the box and absorb *all* the back wave. But if you do that the apparent output will fall, and the box will no longer function properly as a reflex enclosure. You can only extend the bass response (in a ported enclosure) by dirtying up the midrange. People compromise by adding as much stuffing as they can without disrupting the reflex action, but that's never enough to completely absorb the backwave and clean up the mids. There's no completely satisfactory solution (short of going to a fully closed box and extending the bass some other way). The loudspeaker industry survives because people have come to expect, and even prefer, the blurred and muddied sound of under-damped boxes. It is also (part of) why OB and dipole (non)enclosures sound so startlingly "different".

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  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by Paul Ebert View Post
    Where can one buy 703?
    http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Ow...f-6--1004.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Ebert
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Very cool!!!

    Instead of Acoustastuff, try a hunk of Owens Corning 703 on the back wall.
    Where can one buy 703?

    Leave a comment:


  • MSaturn
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    man, those are both lovely pairs of speakers. I look forward to listening impressions.

    Leave a comment:


  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    and ZA14/vifa
    Attached Files

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  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    small update. Modeled response with 4th order. Fountek/Vifa crossover
    Tweeter was measured slightly of axis.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    been playing with the crossover modeling for a couple of days. Decided on 4th/2nd L/R electrical without notch. Will post modeled results in a day or so.

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  • r-carpenter
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
    Is that Proac-Vifa the Neo-DX25?

    I love Bird's Eye Maple!
    Wolf
    yep. i got a few.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolf
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    here's what the output looks like roughly after padding was added. Note: the over all level was changed in the process.
    Is that Proac-Vifa the Neo-DX25?

    I love Bird's Eye Maple!
    Wolf

    Leave a comment:


  • Pete Schumacher
    replied
    Re: follow up on ZA 14 vs Fountek

    Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
    now, this is what happens then you put padding on the walls. a fundamental standing wave is still there (equal in length to the longest dimension, about 11 inches in this case) but lower in magnitude. Padding is only so effective. I also find stuffing such as accustuff only marginally effective in the ported loudspeaker. Unfortunately then you keep on adding it, the usable output drops down in magnitude together with the ripples. Ahh no luck in life.
    Peter, don't jump the gun I did.
    Anyway, here my to blonds and 2 redheads.
    Very cool!!!

    Instead of Acoustastuff, try a hunk of Owens Corning 703 on the back wall.

    Leave a comment:

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