Veneering gone bad...One of those days

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  • mgrabow
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 820

    Veneering gone bad...One of those days

    Well, I am throwing in the towel. I have veneered for many years, but this birds eye maple has beat me... My latest enclosure is now officially juts a box to experiment on with birds eye maple. First I had ripples. never had it with bubinga or sapele. I figured out it was the moisture in the glue on the very dry winter time maple... Unfortunatly in trying to repair it, I burned through the back of the cabinet. So I grab my last piece and all the other pieces and treat them with veneer softener. a day later I am trying different things with test pieces and all looks good. no ripples, no cracking... hey must be good stuff...

    well after reading everything I could find on the web, I go with what has worked and what sounds good. glue the mdf with 2 cotas and let it dry for 20. glue the back of the veneer and let it dry, spraying the front to keep it flat. Heat up my iron and the second I touched it to the veneer it turned into a soup bowl and cracked in 4 places... I give up. I am gonna use the rest of the box trying different hot iron methods on the birdseye and just try to learn...

    Suggestions from anyone who has worked with birdseye are welcome...
    Mark


    http://www.diy-ny.com
  • r-carpenter
    Seasoned Veteran
    • Aug 2008
    • 5846

    #2
    Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

    If your speaker is small enough and flat, you could clamp the veneer down with clamps and scrap piece of MDF. In this case I would recommend also Unibond 800 not yellow glue.
    In your defense, Birds Eye Maple does not respond well to softeners, it hates moisture in the glue and loves to become a pretzel and fall apart if any moisture is introduced.
    The best way to work it is to start with fairly flat veneer and use either conventional clamping or vacuum press. Sorry.
    http://www.diy-ny.com/

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    • mgrabow
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 820

      #3
      Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

      well its a .5 cu/ft enclosure. I can probably get away with it...

      I am gonna stick with bubinga...
      Mark


      http://www.diy-ny.com

      Comment

      • mgrabow
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2008
        • 820

        #4
        Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

        Well, I did come up with a method that worked pretty good, but I am still getting some edge cracking.

        I took some Bubinga I had and put it on the front and back of these cabinets and It was as easy as I remember. Maple is just tough...
        Mark


        http://www.diy-ny.com

        Comment

        • DoubleTap
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2010
          • 970

          #5
          Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

          I've never had any problem with birdseye maple ... sounds like you were just unlucky this time. This time of year you have to be careful not to let your glue freeze. If my cold press glue ever freezes, it'll result in a lot like what you're describing had happen to you ... even though after it thaws the glue looks to be fine, it will result in the veneer having tons of waviness in it.
          Vapor Audio

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          • mgrabow
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2008
            • 820

            #6
            Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

            New Glue and working in my living room... It was nice wood too, just cracks like crazy... I dont know if I can afford to ever try it again...
            Mark


            http://www.diy-ny.com

            Comment

            • GuitarTom
              New Member
              • Apr 2009
              • 41

              #7
              Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

              mgrabow,
              I'm not sure if I understand your procedure correctly. You said that you sprayed the veneer to get it wet. I think that when you applied heat to the wet veneer that the sudden evaporation would cause the veneer to crack. Did you let the glue dry for only 20 minutes? I let the glue dry for at least a day. I'm not saying my veneer jobs are perfect. They aren't, I do get cracks and that could be because of my impatience with too much heat. For me the glue and heat still works the best. GuitarTom

              Comment

              • DoubleTap
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2010
                • 970

                #8
                Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

                Patience is the most important part of finishing work ... and I have none! But I try, usually by doing enough projects at the same time that I can occupy myself with another build while I let the prior one wait for things to dry and set properly.

                When I soften veneer I spray, let it dry for 2 hours or so, then layer it to flatten. I put 3 slices of veneer then a layer of paper towels, then 3 more slices of veneer, etc. After it presses like that for a day or so, I let it stand open for another 2 hours or so, then press again with no paper towels for another day or 2. After that, it usually feels dry but pliable. Before I put the glue on I'll hit it with the iron to pre-dry it. If it's going to crack it'll usually do it then. After drying with the iron I put the glue on and try to let that sit for at least 3-4 hours before I iron onto the cabinet.

                I once tried to rush a batch of extremely brittle Mahogany Crotch veneer, and couldn't get it onto a cabinet for the life of me without cracking. Fortunately I had a huge flitch of the veneer to work with, and once I took my time softening and drying it, I can get it laid onto a cabinet with no problem ... it's even pliable enough to wrap around a 3/4" roundover, which is a small miracle for Crotch veneer!
                Vapor Audio

                Comment

                • mgrabow
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2008
                  • 820

                  #9
                  Re: Veneering gone bad...One of those days

                  Originally posted by GuitarTom
                  mgrabow,
                  I'm not sure if I understand your procedure correctly. You said that you sprayed the veneer to get it wet. I think that when you applied heat to the wet veneer that the sudden evaporation would cause the veneer to crack. Did you let the glue dry for only 20 minutes? I let the glue dry for at least a day. I'm not saying my veneer jobs are perfect. They aren't, I do get cracks and that could be because of my impatience with too much heat. For me the glue and heat still works the best. GuitarTom


                  Well the spraying was a suggestion I found online. I agree with what you said. It is a bad idea...

                  The 20 minutes was another online suggestion. another bad idea...

                  I finally got the maple to cooperate. 3 coats on the mdf completely dried and one on the veneer completely dried. I tried one piece with adding a second coat to the veneer, but just touching the roller to the stiff veneer cracked it.

                  I tape the end grain to control splits and unroll as I apply (the veneer rolls up when the glue on it dries...)

                  Those worked perfect.

                  The bubinga I am used to working with is much more forgiving...
                  Mark


                  http://www.diy-ny.com

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