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Poll on PCD change - give me your input

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  • Poll on PCD change - give me your input

    OK. As many know I am revising the Passive Crossover Designer. One of the things that I changed was correcting the vertical panning, which was upside-down. You would have thought that a dummy like me would have caught that one, but I am really surprised that it got by all you smart guys too. :rolleyes:

    Now, in my tests it matches my off-axis summations and phase in CALSOD exactly (which I thought I tested before, but it must have escaped me somehow). That brings me to the Z offset.

    Should I change the way it works so that it matches CALSOD, LspCad, SoundEasy, Speakerworkshop and all of the other excellent simulaton tools out there - meaning that the woofer offset would be a negative value if it is behind the 0 plane? Sheesh Jeff, it's about time, already.

    Or, do I leave it as it is (+ for most woofers) because this is what you are used to working with and you have all these former project files that will be screwed up if I change it. It will mess up everything, including my brain.

    Give me your pick, please.

    Thanks,
    Jeff
    33
    Change it to match other crossover tools: negative (-) if the woofer is behind the tweeter.
    60.61%
    20
    No. Are you crazy? Leave it alone. This is what I am used to (+ for the woofer offset).
    39.39%
    13
    Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

  • #2
    Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

    I would like if you changed Z offset so negative is behind the 0 plane. It makes more sense that way, and people new to the software will be less likely to enter the wrong value here. Previous project files will be screwed up, but I can live with that.

    Another welcome change would be to use something like mm for driver offsets instead of meters.

    Btw, thanks a lot for your excellent spreadsheet. My speakers would not exist without it ;)
    I'm not deaf, I'm just not listening!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

      Having it be a positive value is the only way I know , since I've only used your app, but if all of the other programs use a negative, then that might be a worthwhile change, plus it seems more intuitive for that value to be negative, since it's farther away from the listening point.

      Short answer: I dunno...:D

      Edit: Wouldn't it be a relatively simple matter of changing z offsets from positive to negative in the project files (for us, that is, once you're done screaming and gnashing your teeth over the changes in phase)?



      Mark
      You go your way, I'll go mine. I don't care if we get there on time.

      ~Pink Floyd

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

        Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
        You would have thought that a dummy like me would have caught that one, but I am really surprised that it got by all you smart guys too. :rolleyes:
        Y'all are too smart, is all; it requires someone CERTIFIABLY dumb to catch this stuff, like me asking the appropriate question: "WTF...?" :p

        Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
        That brings me to the Z offset. Should I change the way it works so that it matches CALSOD, LspCad, SoundEasy, Speakerworkshop and all of the other excellent simulaton tools out there - meaning that the woofer offset would be a negative value if it is behind the 0 plane?
        Conceptually, driver acoustic centers are behind the measurement plane, the front of the baffle, typically. Yes, they are added to the measurement distance, but we think of them as being negative offsets from zero.

        Now that I have the Y offsets in correct polarity, I am able to dial Z in quite precisely, knowing where the inverse null is located by measurement....
        Last edited by Zilch; 03-16-2010, 09:25 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

          as long as you change the explanation balloon, it should be no problem to change to a negative. could you add more of these balloons? they could be most useful. for instance, for the x and y. thanks.
          " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

          Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
          Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

          http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
          http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

            Jeff-

            Could you place one or more characters in the PCD file that indicate the version so that you can automatically revise parameters such as this or prompt the user to do so when opening a file created in an older version?

            -Charlie
            Charlie's Audio Pages: http://audio.claub.net

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

              Change it so it matches Calsod please

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                Certinly one step to making it more intutiave. Though, it is clearly explained in the instructions so no biggie.
                .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                  Hi Jeff,

                  I'd vote for using the negative (for woofer behind tweeter) if it matches other software, and is more intuitive for new users.

                  And while I'm at it, many thanks for those amazing programs!
                  Gordon
                  --------------------
                  Speaker projects:
                  Microbe: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture005.jpg
                  Extremish: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...h/IMG_0013.jpg
                  Seas27TBFCG/VifaXT18: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture155.jpg
                  in progress: http://s234.photobucket.com/user/gor...-way%20project

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                    Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                    That brings me to the Z offset.

                    Should I change the way it works so that it matches CALSOD, LspCad, SoundEasy, Speakerworkshop and all of the other excellent simulaton tools out there - meaning that the woofer offset would be a negative value if it is behind the 0 plane?
                    One vote YES. But you knew that would the case for me.

                    Everything relative to a single coordinate system origin.

                    dlr
                    WinPCD - Windows .NET Passive Crossover Designer

                    Dave's Speaker Pages

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                      Hey Jeff,

                      Just noticed yesterday what looks like a bug in the woofer box and circuit designer program.
                      In the box volume and vent calculator area I have
                      'English Units: English"
                      "Volume-Vab (Litres) = 46.01"
                      "Volume-Vab (Ft^3) = 1.63"
                      and "Tuned Port Fb = 22.8 Hz"

                      If I then switch to "Metric Units: Centimeters" I get:
                      "Volume-Vab (Litres) = 2.81"
                      "Volume-Vab (Ft^3) = .1"
                      and "Tuned Port Fb = 58. HZ"

                      If I then hit the "Transfer Vab" button, it transfers to the upper part of the spreadsheet and totally throws off the charts below.

                      Just thought I should mention it..
                      Gordon
                      --------------------
                      Speaker projects:
                      Microbe: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture005.jpg
                      Extremish: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...h/IMG_0013.jpg
                      Seas27TBFCG/VifaXT18: http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/e...Picture155.jpg
                      in progress: http://s234.photobucket.com/user/gor...-way%20project

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                        Originally posted by gordoncalder View Post
                        Hey Jeff,

                        Just noticed yesterday what looks like a bug in the woofer box and circuit designer program.
                        In the box volume and vent calculator area I have
                        'English Units: English"
                        "Volume-Vab (Litres) = 46.01"
                        "Volume-Vab (Ft^3) = 1.63"
                        and "Tuned Port Fb = 22.8 Hz"

                        If I then switch to "Metric Units: Centimeters" I get:
                        "Volume-Vab (Litres) = 2.81"
                        "Volume-Vab (Ft^3) = .1"
                        and "Tuned Port Fb = 58. HZ"

                        If I then hit the "Transfer Vab" button, it transfers to the upper part of the spreadsheet and totally throws off the charts below.

                        Just thought I should mention it..
                        Sorry Gordon, I'm not following you here. Everything you described above is exactly as the program was meant to function, so I don't see a bug being described. Please elaborate on the problem I'm not seeing.

                        Jeff
                        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                          Originally posted by dlr View Post
                          One vote YES. But you knew that would the case for me.

                          Everything relative to a single coordinate system origin.

                          dlr

                          Somehow I thought I might see you in this thread. ;)
                          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                            Originally posted by charlielaub View Post
                            Jeff-

                            Could you place one or more characters in the PCD file that indicate the version so that you can automatically revise parameters such as this or prompt the user to do so when opening a file created in an older version?

                            -Charlie
                            Interesting idea. It may take a little trickery, but I might be able to make that work.
                            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Poll on PCD change - give me your input

                              From the LspCAD 5.25 pro manual, page 59: "...a positive dZ is further from the listener than a negative dZ." Personally, I don't care, provided it is made very clear...preferably as part of the input screen (make it very obvious for dummies like me).

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