Might as well start another War....

[maynardg]

Re: Might as well start another War....

I prefer classic gear and tubes. But my main amp is SS.

Bought a used, classic (1976) Accuphase P300. Recapped. Total of $700. Plenty of power and a classic. Unfortunately, the binding posts are equally classic - but that is offset by watching the nifty meter needles.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/ACCUPHASE/P300/P300.html#

Seriously, all discrete, built like a brick, cool running. It really does blend the warmth of tubes with big bass kahunas. Benched at 196W into 8 ohms before clipping. I'll never test its power limits and walk away without hearing loss.

[the kid]

Re: Might as well start another War....

"- but that is offset by watching the nifty meter needles."

The needles always give the impression that the equipment is really doing something. I always thought is was a cool marketing product.

[biff]

Think different...

There have been some good suggestions here, but in my opinion, given the info, I would approach it another way. (you may already have)

The greatest bang for buck is always going to be speakers, and they will also have the greatest differential in sound, regardless of Ivor Tefanbaum. Before you pick an amp, have you picked your target speakers? Given that in your environment you might like speaker A at 82db eff., or B at 88db or C at 94db you are of course needing power of 20, 80, or 320 wpc to drive similar levels (in inverse order). Does the type of music you listen to have high dynamics, like acoustic or classical - or do you like pop/rock that has high continuous demand? That would affect your choice so something like NAD with a lower continuous rating but greater headroom becomes an attractive option. I see people sometimes talking about going from a 100 to a 150 wpc amp and hearing a huge difference, but that is incremental change. IMO, you can't have too much power, so a decision between a high ender that is just adequate and one with less hype and 4 times as much guts would be easy for me.

Having said that, my ownership experience has included Advent, NAD, Nakamichi (a Nelson Pass design IIRC), Adcom and now Parasound in from 15 watt to 225 per and I am content with my Parasound as it seems neutral ,reliable, and with my speakers, in my room, has enough grunt to make me grin when the right stuff comes around.

Lately I have seen some really good deals on Audio Advisor on both NAD and Cambridge stuff, both of which I'd be happy to listen through.

[Face]

Re: Might as well start another War....

This thread is about amps right? Not amps vs. cabinet bracing vs. room acoustics, right? :rolleyes:

[Paul K.]

Re: Might as well start another War....

I haven't read any of the other posts, so I don't know what anyone else has suggested. If you're talking about a power amp as opposed to an integrated amp or receiver, I can enthusiastically recommend the SS power amp I have. It's a Quad 909 and is rated at 140 wpc into 8 ohms and 250 wpc into 4 ohms. It has had very good reviews and its list price is ~$1500 new. You can get it new for less money with a 3-year warranty on Audiogon from "Underwoodwally" (Walter Underwood) as I did. I've had mine for 2years plus and love it. There is currently a used 909 listed for $799 if you are interested but not from Wally.
Paul

I've never bothered to find out what 'obsession' means were you to talk of such in Psychiatric terms. I do sometimes seriously wonder about myself as times in my Life I've gotten involved in studies of this or that and invested large sums of money with little or no profit .

I'm starting to see Audio just the same. I have no money to do the things I want to do yet find myself spending all kinds of time looking at the Big Boy Toys knowing that were I ever to be able to buy these things I would simply do so because 'they must ' sound even better.

I'm finally starting to replace tools I lost and hoping to have a workable shop of sorts by Summers end. Drivers here for 3 planned projects already.

Although I purchased some semi decent stuff for reproduction I'm already thinking of moving to HTPC for Movies and I most definitely will work 1st at moving up in 2channel SS. It will be awhile before I venture further into tubes.

We've got a couple threads running arguing over $300-$500 comparisons of 2 channel SS, Gainclones, low buck tubes and class D Amps.

I'm nowhere near to making that move up to supposed Nirvana and never is the day I'll own 50K Amps.

So .... new War.

Far from high end but getting into decent are a number of Amps. Immediately coming to mind are Emotiva, Bryston, Adcom, Pass Labs, Parasound, Phase Linear, Accuphase, Rotel, older Mac, Marl Levenson and Jeff Rowland.

I'm thinking minimum 150 per channel 4 ohm capable with a price range of as low as $400 but not to exceed $2500 new or used. I've had bad luck with used stuff and don't know if it was shippers or I just got ripped so new with that piece of paper is preferable. Serviceability important. Don't want something only 5 guys in U.S. work on .

So, fellow Maniacs or Sane Rich Guys .... what and why would you buy? Feel free to mention stuff I didn't. Yeah, I know... good luck finding Pass at that price point.

[lasse]

Re: Might as well start another War....

This thread is about amps right? Not amps vs. cabinet bracing vs. room acoustics, right? :rolleyes:

You are absolutely right.

Sorry to steer away and talk about drivers, bracing, DSP etc, but it all mixes together in the end, right?:o

(at least if we talk "fixed-price" for the whole set-up)

Regards//lasse

[the kid]

Re: Might as well start another War....

If for once I would seriously think something through, I would approach this situation like this - what do I want to end up with, with the amount of money I have to spend? Am I going to be satisfied with all of the choices that fall into that budget?

Now, with that said, a person can / will drive themselves mad if they fall into the trap of always wanting what the other guy has. If this is the case, a decision may never be made. And one that is finally made, will not be good enough. (I have been leaning on this ledge since coming to diy here)

So many ways of getting there. Receiver; amp + preamp; 1 setup for music & 1 setup for movies... What do you need to do with the equipment? Can you make a comfortable compromise? Can you plan in any room for exchanges if your first choice is not good enough? Will this equipment be current enough for a couple of years down the road? (connections)

(a little personal) -
Do your research, but when you feel right about something, hold on to that idea. Don't toss it out because something else shiney just caught your eye. I have seen you give replies and advice to others and your opinions seem to hold merit. I think you have more knowledge and answers than you realize. It looks like subconsciously you have a virus program that keeps defeating yourself. You know good products, someone else adds to or confirms your ideas, yet you always do the "yeah, but what about this...".

So, I guess what I am replying as is this - what do you want in the end? Ask these guys ( I am not one for this ) and listen to your gut. You probably can't go wrong. I imagine there is a lot of good out there. Otherwise, everyone here would have the same thing.

[dusty]

Re: Might as well start another War....

parasound or ATI. but I would like to try emotiva monoblock. I remember a guy ask the post for a table saw and someone will say $200 tabale saw work fine and a guy with $2000 dollar don't think the saw is good enough. you will not get an answere for this kind of question.

[DDF]

Re: Might as well start another War....

I haven't heard enough amps to compare, but I think I could happily live with a Bryston SST. I have two (much) older Brystons and much preferred what I heard from the SST: no hardness at all.

Bryston also satisfies both sides of the brain, being technically excellent, but also sounding very nice (IMO). Its also a no muss/no fuss solution with a long warranty.

I also considered the Odyssey Stratos at one time. Great reviews but its huge and I've read reports that its a bit susceptible to bad ac.

[DS-21]

Re: Might as well start another War....

I think if one is going to spend 2k USD or more for amplification, one should move out of the stone age and buy a modern product with a decent room correction program built in. (Unless one is choosing based on looks or brand snobbery or some other perfectly legitimate and reasonable reason unrelated to a desire for enhanced audio fidelity.)

Whatever differences may (but generally don't) exist between two similarly-powerful amps are absolutely tiny compared to the potentially huge improvements that a well-implemented room correction program can provide.

I personally prefer Audyssey MultEQ XT of the ones I've tried before, because it gives measurable and audible improvements even on good speakers that are well placed. But I've not tried them all. And the best modern receivers can drive pretty much any speaker short of 1980s Apogees.

[mgrabow]

Re: Might as well start another War....

First I must question something in your thread

"Far from high end but getting into decent are a number of Amps. Immediately coming to mind are Emotiva, Bryston, Adcom, Pass Labs, Parasound, Phase Linear, Accuphase, Rotel, older Mac, Marl Levenson and Jeff Rowland."


Nelson Pass, Bryston, Mark Levenson, Jeff Rowland? Far from High End? Wow, if thats far from high end, I think your $2500 needs another zero...All great amps... You have good taste...

I myself would spend about $2000 on ebay for a Bryston 4b or less than a grand on a Threshold s300 (older Pass built amp).


$2500 new will not touch most of the ones I referenced at 150 watts.

I must also respectfully disagree with some on implying that you are wasting money in the $2000-$2500 range. Most (not all) of your high end amps are built with a "spare no expense" attitude that leads to the ultra high prices. When someone carves their face plate out of a solid piece of billet aluminum, they are exceeding the $100 case figure by about 3 times( just on the face plate). Hell the power switch alone on my Audio Research pre amp is $27.


I think you have some good taste in amps and when you buy a used amp that came new with a 20 year warranty, the manufacturer was confident it would last, so used is a safe bet... Provided you don't get scammed.

[mgrabow]

Re: Might as well start another War....

First I must question something in your thread

"Far from high end but getting into decent are a number of Amps. Immediately coming to mind are Emotiva, Bryston, Adcom, Pass Labs, Parasound, Phase Linear, Accuphase, Rotel, older Mac, Marl Levenson and Jeff Rowland."


Nelson Pass, Bryston, Mark Levenson, Jeff Rowland? Far from High End? Wow, if thats far from high end, I think your $2500 needs another zero...All great amps... You have good taste...

I myself would spend about $2000 on ebay for a Bryston 4b or less than a grand on a Threshold s300 (older Pass built amp).


$2500 new will not touch most of the ones I referenced at 150 watts.

I must also respectfully disagree with some on implying that you are wasting money in the $2000-$2500 range. Most (not all) of your high end amps are built with a "spare no expense" attitude that leads to the ultra high prices. When someone carves their face plate out of a solid piece of billet aluminum, they are exceeding the $100 case figure by about 3 times( just on the face plate). Hell the power switch alone on my Audio Research pre amp is $27.


I think you have some good taste in amps and when you buy a used amp that came new with a 20 year warranty, the manufacturer was confident it would last, so used is a safe bet... Provided you don't get scammed.

[Æ]

Re: Might as well start another War....

To me, the real issue is the ignorance spread wide that causes so many people to buy into the B.S. and waste $$ on part of the chain that has little influence where investment into the best speaker and room acoustics is where it really pays off.

-Chris

Hey, I agree with him.
It's not wasted money if you can afford it and you gain satisfaction.

[mgrabow]

Re: Might as well start another War....

To me, the real issue is the ignorance spread wide that causes so many people to buy into the B.S. and waste $$ on part of the chain that has little influence where investment into the best speaker and room acoustics is where it really pays off.

-Chris

I agree on spending the budget on the speakers and the room. There are some source and preamp fanatics that will say "garbage in, garbage out" which is also true (unless you have a set of k-mart speakers on an amp that came free with a magazine subscription...). But for me switching from a marantz receiver to a good pre-amp and amp, was a huge difference...But I only paid $390 for a preamp that was $1900 new and $600 for an amp that was $3999 in its day.

[BasTek]

Re: Might as well start another War....

I have a high end dual mono integrated amp with all Alps controls and switches, and a QSC pro amp both connected to a A/B amp selector and there is no difference in sound from either amp, nothing - 0 - nada. Save some money and go Pro.