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The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

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  • The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

    CJD and I designed this speaker over at HTguide. Now that we're finished, I thought I would post it here. Curt sort of stole our thunder with his AviaTrix, but I think these will fill a nice niche. I'm very happy with how they turned out, considering the low low price. I could be content with these as my main speakers.

    Feel free to ask questions here, I do stop in frequently. But, you're likely to get quicker responses from CJD and I at HTguide. I also have a little more info in the HTguide post that isn't repeated here for brevity.

    ---

    http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35905

    This project is designed for my younger brother. My brother is big into music and movies with a collection of well over 2000 CDs. He loves all types of music from, first and foremost, classic rock to single female vocalists to world music. But unfortunately with having his first child arrived in November, he is low on budget. Up to now, he has used a HTIB. But, January brought him a lot of overtime hours, so he has challenged me to build him a complete 5.1 system for $700. Here we go...:

    The project will be using the Dayton ND140 and Vifa BC25SC06. My intent is that there will be 'The Ochocinco MTM' and 'The Seiscero TM'. With both a 8 ohm and 4 ohm version of the ND140 available, we intend to make these solid 8 ohm speakers so they work with low end receivers. My brother intends to power them with an Onkyo SR607.

    ND140-4 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-216
    ND140-8 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=290-218
    BC25SC06 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=264-1028

    We're looking to build a value leader that will be able to rock out but also sound great with whatever music is thrown at it. They will be placed in a larger basement family room. The center channel will go over/under a 46" DLP.

    If you haven't picked up on the joke yet, the goal is to have each MTM cost $85 and the TM to cost $60 or $375 for the 5 speakers. I am also figuring on another $250 for a Dayton 15" DVC and 240SA plate amp (TubaHT?). Then add in wood, terminal cups, poly fill, blah blah blah, and I'm slightly over the $700 limit - and I haven't paid CJD yet! :eek:



    (PS, I'm not a Cincinati Bengals or Chad 'Ochocinco' Johnson fan at all, but I do enjoy his sense of humor. And, when I saw in my budget estimate that the MTM was $85/ea, it just made me chuckle and continue to chuckle for a couple of weeks)


    EDIT: 06/06/2010 - PROJECT DONE!!!


    The project is done and delivered to my brother. I think they turned out fantastic, and when considering the price they are excellent. I found 3 MTM's up front delivered plenty of dynamics for HT use. They sound plenty detailed and articulate for music. The sound is clean, crisp and clear with a big room filling soundstage. The speakers look good upfront too: Not too big, not to small, and are designed to be close to the back wall so they'll fit in with most decors.





    Please note that my boxes and crossovers are constructed to hit specific price points and level of effort. I've tried to note areas where I recommend upgrades / optimizations to increase performance.

    PE 0.75cuft box: 20"h x 8"w x 13"d, 3/4" roundover along the vertical edges.


    Cut sheet for the front 3 - 0.75cuft MTM from a 48"x96" sheet (Save the big scrap, we'll use that later for the rear TMs):


    Crossover:


    (Speaker wire is the input. The white disconnects along the bottom are the driver negative terminals, top-left disconnect is the tweeter positive terminal, top-right disconnect is the midwoofer positive terminal)


    Light fiberglass stuffing inside - about 1.5" to 2" thick. I also put a fistfull behind each driver.

    BOM for As-Built


    An all PE BOM. With free shipping, the cost difference is minor. This has the upgraded poly cap on the tweeter. You'll also need to parallel two - 8uf caps to make the 16uf cap. Remember, PE is a forum sponsor:
    Last edited by ---k---; 06-11-2010, 03:53 PM.
    - Ryan

    CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
    CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

  • #2
    Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

    How long before Taterworks complains that finished projects belong in the Project Gallery and that the moderation here isn't up to par?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

      This is more of a plans to build and progress from the start synopsis addition to the main forum, and is in the right place.
      Taterworks means well, as everything has its place.

      If this was just pictures of the finished project without commentary, then it should go in the other sector.
      Later,
      Wolf
      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

      *InDIYana event website*

      Photobucket pages:
      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

        Did you experiement w/ a ported box? I have a ported ND140-8 TM in 10L or so and it sounds great - bass not boomy and low notes can be heard pretty well.
        Last edited by bmaupin; 06-11-2010, 01:34 AM.
        Brad
        piano black sealing mdf irregular recesses grill technique

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

          I didn't even know the other forum existed... I bookmarked this one shortly after the switch to the new software and must have missed the announcement... whatever. Mods do whatever, but why bog this thread down in that discussion?



          I did played with the models for ported and had a hard time avoiding a hump in the response. With knowing that there was going to be a sub, I saw no reason to go ported. I also took comfort in the added safety that a sealed box would give if the speakers were flogged (I don't trust people to be sensible). I didn't notice any power handling / max SPL issues in my limited time with them and the bass was still suprising. -just my approach- Curt seems to have come up with a good TL design though. So, I guess it can be done.
          - Ryan

          CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
          CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
          CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
          CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

            How do you like the Erse compo nets?
            .

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

              They were fine. The PE parts are just as good. I just was trying something new.
              - Ryan

              CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
              CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                How do you like the Erse compo nets?
                They are considerably cheaper to buy than the Dayton Audio stuff.
                Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                  Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                  They are considerably cheaper to buy than the Dayton Audio stuff.
                  I was just responding to a PM and it reminded me. With the parts used here, there was a difference in price, but it wasn't huge. If I had bought the crossover parts with the drivers, I would have got free shipping and the price difference was basically nothing. But, since I bought the crossover parts by themselves (after measuring the drivers), the total was less than $100, so I had to pay shipping and Erse was then a little cheaper. YMMV.

                  I rather not discuss Erse vs. PE where PE is paying for the bandwidth. My personal opinion. Both supply quality parts and have good service.
                  - Ryan

                  CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                  CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                  CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                  CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                    Those look great. I haven't ever used those drivers for nothing more than little subwoofers.

                    And I love how you signature says "Small Speakers Suck" and your thread is on small speakers. :D :D :D
                    Thanks ,
                    JB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                      Originally posted by DjDisturbed View Post
                      And I love how you signature says "Small Speakers Suck" and your thread is on small speakers. :D :D :D
                      The irony hasn't been lost on me either. :D

                      I'm assembling this parts list, strongly considering making them, and I'm a bit confused...
                      The drivers in the schematic are -4 or the 4-ohm version, and in the BOM you have the name for the 8ohm but the part number is for the 4ohm... and you have them wired in series in your diagram which would make the pair 8ohm, then they're paralleled with the 4-ohm tweeter?


                      I'm assuming you used the 4ohm, and I should ignore the BoM naming?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                        I would think all are 4 ohm drivers, as was his initial post detailing an 8 ohm MTM. But you don't have something right. You don't parallel the midbasses with the tweeter via the xover. Since they are only running in their respective ranges, and their impedances rise in their respective stop-bands, then they are 8 ohms below the xover, and 4 ohms plus whatever L-pad resistor combo for the range above the xover.
                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                        *InDIYana event website*

                        Photobucket pages:
                        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                          I would think all are 4 ohm drivers, as was his initial post detailing an 8 ohm MTM. But you don't have something right. You don't parallel the midbasses with the tweeter via the xover. Since they are only running in their respective ranges, and their impedances rise in their respective stop-bands, then they are 8 ohms below the xover, and 4 ohms plus whatever L-pad resistor combo for the range above the xover.
                          Later,
                          Wolf
                          Duh, thanks.
                          (Been out of audio for quite awhile, need to get my head back around it. Methinks some refresher reading is in my near future.)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                            Originally posted by DjDisturbed View Post
                            And I love how you signature says "Small Speakers Suck" and your thread is on small speakers. :D :D :D
                            Well, these aren't my speakers! They were made for my brother!
                            And actually, I think only on the internet are speakers in 0.75 cuft boxes considered small. ;)
                            - Ryan

                            CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                            CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                            CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                            CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Sietecerocero Project! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM

                              Originally posted by klocwerk View Post
                              The irony hasn't been lost on me either. :D

                              I'm assembling this parts list, strongly considering making them, and I'm a bit confused...
                              The drivers in the schematic are -4 or the 4-ohm version, and in the BOM you have the name for the 8ohm but the part number is for the 4ohm... and you have them wired in series in your diagram which would make the pair 8ohm, then they're paralleled with the 4-ohm tweeter?


                              I'm assuming you used the 4ohm, and I should ignore the BoM naming?

                              Ahh, a typo. Yes, those should be the 4 ohm version. We used the 8ohm version in the matching TM. I'll got that fixed... Thanks for pointing it out.
                              - Ryan

                              CJD Ochocinco ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
                              CJD In-Khan-Neatos - A Dayton RS180/RS150/RS28 In/On Wall MTW

                              Comment

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