on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

[Chris Roemer]

Re: 1 year anniversary

Thanks for the clear up, that makes total sense. I did build it to your specs and I can just play around with adding pollyfill or w.e to it.

Also, anyone know a good 2.1 or 4.1 channel AMP or receiver? I'm willing to make one. This is all hooked up to my PC so an AMP is all I really need since my sound card can do all the work (xonar dx). I also stumbled upon: http://ampslab.com/index.html any input on them?

Thanks!

Yikes. I started this thread just one year ago (a few days back). Missed the anniversary. Still going strong (blushing).

[isaeagle4031]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

I'm using an older Kenwood amp and Sony processor. Amp is rated at 150w/ch I think. They get to uncomfortable levels (for the wife anyway:D) well before there is any audible distortion. When I took them to InDIYiana, Wolf was watching wondering if we were pushing them too far as we brought them up to reference levels in the room (around 90db I think). The excursion was just silly for these little suckers!!

[DIYNut42]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

nick,

I noticed that too! The part about no distortion till break up. I kept turning up the volume on my test reciever, and it kept surprising me because there was no distortition at all until the point that it started to break up! The reciever is an old Fisher circa 1998. 100w into 8 Ohm with an adjustable EQ across most of the band via knobs on the face of it lol.

I went ahead with the 6 part XO right off the bat with mine, but I havent looked into any upgrades yet.

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Onkyo HT-RC260. Bought it when it was $280 new shipped, taxed :D

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-HT-RC260-7-2-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B003FSTAVY

100 watts plus into 8 ohm baby! They TOTALLY own my speakers, I keep trying to play my speakers to loud cause I LOVE THE BASS! I keep turning up the bass on it (bass is for the speakers and subwoofer is the sub on my receiver).

One thing that scared me about these speakers is, there is no break up until distortion! Speakers are supposed to sound like crap then break, not these!

I just don't understand how Chris could take such dinky drivers and make me smile every time I turn them on. Trance music or any bass lien driven song just is soooooooooo smooooooth and nice. After I heard them I decided to upgrade my crossover to the final level because I just wanted to max them out for the hell of it :D. Every single part except the tweeter coil has bin upgraded.

[MLS]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

I am using an 80's Nikko NA-590 integrated amp to power mine and it does pretty well. I forget what the output is, I bought it for $20. I want to try to put together a DIY amp to go along with the Nano Neo's and have thought about the Sure 100X2 amp but I am not sure how it would sound with the speakers. I think a ClassD amp would probably work pretty well but they are about double the cost of the sure amp.

MLS

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

If you don't mind me asking, what are you using to power yours? Ive been debating whether to pick up one of the Lempai (spelling?) amps, or build a nice Sure amp for them.

The Lepai amp will not be powerful enough for these speakers. I've already tried it.

[DIYNut42]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Another one who loves them :D.

For me I played them, but was like were is the bass? I then realized I had to switch them to full range. Did that and :eek: ,every day they never stop amazing me.

If you don't mind me asking, what are you using to power yours? Ive been debating whether to pick up one of the Lempai (spelling?) amps, or build a nice Sure amp for them.

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Nick,

I am not thinking of using the same crossover again. I would just like a compatible tweeter of a little higher quality and maybe crossed over a little lower. I would also like to do a build with less emphasis on the budget and more emphasis on quality components in the cross over.

Scott

So use higher quality components. I'm not certain you'll hear a difference. You have to realize something. When I built these for my father in law, I put them up against a pair of Polk RM40T's. Those are $1150/pair speakers, and these blew those away. I'm not entirely convinced that you could get much better sound with merely a few component improvements.

Then again, I used metallized polypropylene caps in my crossovers. I didn't bother with NPEs, and I used the iron core inductor.

Why not pick a build with higher quality drivers to start. As many have commented, it doesn't make much sense to spend $30 in copper for a $15 driver.

Also, there is significant difference of opinion about how much audible difference there is/is not in XO components once you're at lest at the Dayton/Bennic - Jantzen level.

You are correct on the arguably nill difference you'll hear with more expensive crossover components.

Oh it makes perfect sense. The thing about these tweeters is that the drivers have the capability to play quite high, so these are more "helper" tweeters than anything. They're not supposed to play very low. For what they are, they sound magnificent. I honestly don't think I would change anything about this design. The fact that they're so inexpensive speaks volumes of their quality. Many times drivers are not necessarily chosen based solely on price.

I've looked through many of zaph's designs, and to name one, the ZA5 series presents a good parallel to this design with regard to tweeter choice. Here's what zaph had to say:

I’m sure the $13 tweeter sounds great, but compared to a $40 tweeter, how good?
Very good indeed. In fact, I chose this tweeter based almost completely on it's performance and it's small size. The fact that it only costs $13 is just a lucky bonus. To be clear though, value is important in all my designs. There are some other good small flange tweeters that perform a tiny bit better, but unfortunately they are very expensive.

My point here is that, sure this might be a $10 tweeter, but what's to say that a $40 tweeter would sound significantly better and would integrate as well? I think Chris did an excellent job with this tweeter choice. Would it make you feel better spending $15 on an inductor if I sold you an ND20 for $30? Embrace the fact that this tweeter is such an amazing value and use that as a way to justify more expensive crossover components (if you're among those who think that the more expensive components will make am audible difference).

Another one who loves them :D.

For me I played them, but was like were is the bass? I then realized I had to switch them to full range. Did that and :eek: ,every day they never stop amazing me.

My father in law has had these for quite some time, and I'm still amazed at their clarity, imaging, and accuracy every time I walk into his room while they're playing. Its hard for me to leave.

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Another one who loves them :D.

For me I played them, but was like were is the bass? I then realized I had to switch them to full range. Did that and :eek: ,every day they never stop amazing me.

[DIYNut42]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Today is one of my days off, and I finally got a little free time to get one of these buttoned up and tested out just now. I just wanted to hop on here real quick and say... WOW!

I've heard nothing but good things about these, but I never expected this kind of output from a speaker this size. Especially the lower end! I'm building these for my sister to go in her bedroom, and was debating whether I should build her a small sub to go with em. No need! The old reciever I use for testing right now is strictly rated 8 Ohm so I didnt play it very long. Looking forward to getting the other one finished and getting a capable amp for em.

To anyone who is on the fence about building a set, I say go for it. You wont be disapointed.

Ryan

[Mikers]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Wow, those look nice.

[Soundslike]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Here's a photo or two of the finished crossovers:





And here's how they're wired on the underside:



The boards are made from 1/4" hardboard (Masonite), all components are secured solely with hot-melt glue (and the underside wire connections), 18 gauge "hook-up" stranded wire was use where necessary (black and red, where the component leads weren't long enough to make connections), and heat-shrink tubing (blue) was used to insulate bare wires in close proximity to other bare wires.

[Soundslike]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

He modded a crossover by using something like 8 gauge inductors. They look like a stack of 25 CDs.- Chris Roemer

Now that's funny!

Thanks Fastbike and Chris for clearing up the issue.

[Chris Roemer]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

It's unlikely to matter with this driver set. Many would say that's its unlikely to matter at all.

101% correct !

The XO is modeled with the coil's DCR taken into account. Mess with that, and you're changing the voicing. Most newbies don't understand this. I know a 40-year audiophile who doesn't. He modded a crossover by using something like 8 gauge inductors. They look like a stack of 25 CDs.

Iron cores CAN saturate, but you'd be melting the coils out of the little woofer's long before that could happen.

chris

[fastbike1]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

It's unlikely to matter with this driver set. Many would say that's its unlikely to matter at all.

I've already started soldering -- is there a consensus amongst the builders here that the air coil produces a worthwhile benefit? I've noticed some discussion lately, but this string is so long, I hate to go back and read everything again.