on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

HOLY COW THEY SOUND AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only gripe is they don't get as loud and they are not efficient. Thing is I can power them fully anyways so that doesn't matter to me. The tweeters are nice and calm and blend perfectly with everything. I still need to finish it up but I got it setup at least!

Note: they vibrate the box I built to much :(. I might have to brace more or something but they need to be built heavily. i will post pics later and you guys can comment on what looks good/ needs to be improved with them.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!

Ha, told you you'd love them. Sure beats building something off the shelf huh.

I didn't have any box vibrating issues. What kind of wall padding/damping did you use?

A couple of braces wouldn't be a bad idea for the side walls.

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Thanks for the clear up, that makes total sense. I did build it to your specs and I can just play around with adding pollyfill or w.e to it.

Also, anyone know a good 2.1 or 4.1 channel AMP or receiver? I'm willing to make one. This is all hooked up to my PC so an AMP is all I really need since my sound card can do all the work (xonar dx). I also stumbled upon: http://ampslab.com/index.html any input on them?

Thanks!

[Chris Roemer]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Seeing the chart of WINISD (it is made to have a QTC of .707 witch is the most linear response). 56 cube nets me 0 loss at 69Hz vs 0 loss at 40 Hz. To me this is huge! Why not make the box perfect and have a sharper roll off to compensate that gain you get with the lower frequency's the driver can't handle? Wouldn't it be better to have a full spectrum with minimal loss and then a steep filter to get rid of the rest so you don't -DB the frequency of the driver is able to play? To me it just seems silly to attenuate a frequency when the driver can play it.

Trying to understand how this all works. I was told that having a perfect box is a good rule as long as the driver can play those tones without distortion. Once you know were the limits of the driver is, you do a sharp roll of off 24/Db so that you can play the notes the driver can handle with 0 DB loss caused by a smaller box. This then gives you more output at what it can handle while still cutting off the other frequency it can't handle. Hope I made sense.

First of all, a vented box doesn't really have a "Q", per se, just a box volume (Vb) and a tuning freq (Fb). Secondly, for the complete picture of how a box will perform, you should be using WinISD Pro (the "alpha" version). The third thing is that I didn't do the box design using mfg. T/S data, I measured 2 batches of the ND105-4s with my WT3, one this last winter, and another in 2010. I published my findings in a thread SOMEwhere on TT (but not in THIS thread I don't think), but I do list my basic parms on the cab drawing.

Lastly, the "best" box isn't necessarily the one with the lowest F3. Making a vented box a bit smaller with a tad higher tuning can increase power handling, which can be a good thing for a 4" woofer. It's totally up to the designer. Many people modify designs that they build, and you can too, just don't cry to me if it doesn't turn out the way you thought it would.

Chris

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

HOLY COW THEY SOUND AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only gripe is they don't get as loud and they are not efficient. Thing is I can power them fully anyways so that doesn't matter to me. The tweeters are nice and calm and blend perfectly with everything. I still need to finish it up but I got it setup at least!

Note: they vibrate the box I built to much :(. I might have to brace more or something but they need to be built heavily. i will post pics later and you guys can comment on what looks good/ needs to be improved with them.

THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP!

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Winisd pro is also free. It also offers a lot of funtionality Excel driven apps do not, due to the native Windows gui.

I must have completely missed the part that it was free...:eek:

[johnnyrichards]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Winisd pro is also free. It also offers a lot of funtionality Excel driven apps do not, due to the native Windows gui.

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Winisd does indeed show excursion, if you use the "pro" version. It actually "one ups" WBCD by allowing you to place your crosshairs wherever you want to find out exactly where Xmax is breached.

I can do that with UniBox. Mouse over the graph and it shows me the exact point.

Also, its free.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Winisd does indeed show excursion, if you use the "pro" version. It actually "one ups" WBCD by allowing you to place your crosshairs wherever you want to find out exactly where Xmax is breached.

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Alright. I will do the glue/water mixture then. I will have to buy more glue then. Would any glue work? Like the Elmers white glue stuff?

Didn't you use glue to put the box together? If you haven't put them together yet, you're going to need it. I just use the same glue. The recommended around here is Titebond II. I buy it in gallons now.

I will experiment to see what I like/works best. Also, using WINISD, for two drivers I get the best resaults with a box of .89 Cube feet tuned to 39Hz, any reason why it was always recommended to be .56 tuned to 42?

What i see is:

.56 at 39 Hz= flat to 68 Hz and F3 around 40Hz hump within 1Db witch is nothing

.89 at 39= flat to 43Hz and F3 around 34.3 F3

Hmmm. Well I built to the .56 net and .52 total after displacement and a tune of 39-42 (haven't decided yet). I guess I will try adding some polly fill and see how things work out for this driver. I have always used WINISD for everything.

EX: says to have a 1.25 cube sealed from manufacture for a 12w6v2. Program says 1.9 cube. i did 1.6 after displacement. Was missing something. Added polly fill and hitting around 1.8 cubes and sounds SOOOO much better. the lower notes are now there and is just responding allot better then a smaller box.

Not saying what your doing is bad/wrong, just want to understand how all of this works since this is supposed to be a learning experience and trying things out to see what they will give. WINISD was recommended allot and have used it for everything. It just gives the best enclosure for the flattest response.

WinISD (free version) is extremely limited. What does your excursion look like at certain frequencies? Ah, right, WinISD doesn't show you. Try Unibox and you'll find out that excursion goes up way too fast with a larger box. You'll hit your xlim in no time. Despite being ported, there is still a good amount of air suspension in there that keeps those cones controlled. In addition, the design was made with a specific amount of baffle step compensation that you likely won't want to alter unless you want to modify the crossover. If you have to ask how, you shouldn't try it just yet. Stick with the published design. You will not be disappointed.

If you use polyfill, get the rolled stuff and glue it to the walls with adhesive spray. Otherwise, use fiberglass insulation and do the same. If you don't prefer either method, acoustic foam works, but can be more expensive. When I built these, I used 3 layers of the sheet polyfill. I've since been using acoustic foam and fiberglass.

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

What i see is:

.56 at 39 Hz= flat to 68 Hz and F3 around 40Hz hump within 1Db witch is nothing

.89 at 39= flat to 43Hz and F3 around 34.3 F3

Hmmm. Well I built to the .56 net and .52 total after displacement and a tune of 39-42 (haven't decided yet). I guess I will try adding some polly fill and see how things work out for this driver. I have always used WINISD for everything.

EX: says to have a 1.25 cube sealed from manufacture for a 12w6v2. Program says 1.9 cube. i did 1.6 after displacement. Was missing something. Added polly fill and hitting around 1.8 cubes and sounds SOOOO much better. the lower notes are now there and is just responding allot better then a smaller box.

Not saying what your doing is bad/wrong, just want to understand how all of this works since this is supposed to be a learning experience and trying things out to see what they will give. WINISD was recommended allot and have used it for everything. It just gives the best enclosure for the flattest response.

[fastbike1]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

I'm not quite sure what you're seeing, but when I model a pair of ND105-4s in 16 liters, I get a flat (~0.5 dB) response with a tune of 41Hz and F3/F10 of 35.4/30.5. With a tune at 42.6Hz, I get a ~1dB hump at the tuning point and F3/F10 of 37.4 and 32.

On the other hand, with a 25 liter box and 39Hz tune, I get a ~4dB hump at tune and F3/F10 of 35/31.

I use Jeff Bagby's WBCD.

Seeing the chart of WINISD (it is made to have a QTC of .707 witch is the most linear response). 56 cube nets me 0 loss at 69Hz vs 0 loss at 40 Hz. To me this is huge! Why not make the box perfect and have a sharper roll off to compensate that gain you get with the lower frequency's the driver can't handle? Wouldn't it be better to have a full spectrum with minimal loss and then a steep filter to get rid of the rest so you don't -DB the frequency of the driver is able to play? To me it just seems silly to attenuate a frequency when the driver can play it.

Trying to understand how this all works. I was told that having a perfect box is a good rule as long as the driver can play those tones without distortion. Once you know were the limits of the driver is, you do a sharp roll of off 24/Db so that you can play the notes the driver can handle with 0 DB loss caused by a smaller box. This then gives you more output at what it can handle while still cutting off the other frequency it can't handle. Hope I made sense.

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Seeing the chart of WINISD (it is made to have a QTC of .707 witch is the most linear response). 56 cube nets me 0 loss at 69Hz vs 0 loss at 40 Hz. To me this is huge! Why not make the box perfect and have a sharper roll off to compensate that gain you get with the lower frequency's the driver can't handle? Wouldn't it be better to have a full spectrum with minimal loss and then a steep filter to get rid of the rest so you don't -DB the frequency of the driver is able to play? To me it just seems silly to attenuate a frequency when the driver can play it.

Trying to understand how this all works. I was told that having a perfect box is a good rule as long as the driver can play those tones without distortion. Once you know were the limits of the driver is, you do a sharp roll of off 24/Db so that you can play the notes the driver can handle with 0 DB loss caused by a smaller box. This then gives you more output at what it can handle while still cutting off the other frequency it can't handle. Hope I made sense.

[fastbike1]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

I don't have access to my models right now, but I can think of a couple of reasons. First is using factory specs instead of measured. Second is that there are some differences in the various box modeling programs. Third, "best results" is somewhat subjective. Tuning really depends on what you are trying to achieve. For instance, several folks, myself included, prefer not to tune smaller drivers for the lowest possible bass.

I will experiment to see what I like/works best. Also, using WINISD, for two drivers I get the best resaults with a box of .89 Cube feet tuned to 39Hz, any reason why it was always recommended to be .56 tuned to 42?

[nick650]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

I will experiment to see what I like/works best. Also, using WINISD, for two drivers I get the best resaults with a box of .89 Cube feet tuned to 39Hz, any reason why it was always recommended to be .56 tuned to 42?

[johnnyrichards]

Re: on Sale - $55/pr (drivers & XO)

Nick, I have had very good luck with using automotive filler primer on the raw edges of MDF. One very heavy coat, followed by one coat of regular old primer, sand smooth and paint.

Using the glue method, I have had mixed success, related mostly to sanding. If you do the glue method, experiment first.