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Introducing the Nano Neos.
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Inserted on 1.13.11.
(please see my NN/ntn album for the latest crossovers)
The ND105-4s are on sale for a couple months (probably) at $14.90 a pop, not $12 like last year, but still a great value. It's fine to read this earlier historical thread, and to look at the pictures, but for the latest crossover versions, you should look at the ones posted in my album. I've smoothed out about a +3dB bump around 2-3kHz, that existed last October. I've also got VERY similar response curves now for all 3 crossovers:
1) the "original" (budget) Nano Neos XO has been altered a bit, but I've held the price, so with the woofers on sale, a pair can be yours for about $61.
2) a "non-budget" XO, that includes a 2nd order HP (added a small shunt coil to help integrate the tweeter better), with a more normal looking rolloff, AND I'm suggesting using a poly cap on the tweeter instead of the npe.
3) the "ntn" XO, for my MTM version of the Nano Neos. It uses a series pair of the ND105-4s.
All resistors can be the cheap 0.24c 5w jobs, except I'd be happier if you splurge for a 10w on the "ntn" Zobel. THOSE are 0.39c each. Double drivers means more power, and more power means more heat.
eoi
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These are 4" 2-ways in a 0.3 cf vented box using the ND105-4 woofer and the ND20FA-6 tweeter. They can musically output a 32 Hz test tone (REALLY, at about -10dB) and play strongly from 40Hz up. I know they can cleanly reach lower than BR-1s (as unbelieveable as it sounds).
This project really started around the Holidays when I bought a WT3 on sale (for $67 IIRC). Right around that time, the 2010 catalog came out, and I first saw the 6 "NEW" ND woofers. I thought all their Q's were a bit high for vented boxes, and the Fs figures didn't really impress me. Also, Dayton had a new (cheap) pair of 6.5" 2-ways for $30-something a pair. I started thinking about building an uber-budget project, and for a price point, I picked $55 (which just happens to be my age). All I could come up with (for $27.50 per side) was a DC130 and the ND20-6 tweeter. I couldn't afford ANY coil after the driver cost (almost $26.50 just for the woofer and tweeter), so the woofer had to run "full-range" (just like the big boys do it), and I had about $1 left for a cap and padding resistor for the tweeter. It wouldn't be pretty.
Fast forward to the March/April flyer. Hey, that ND105-4 is ON SALE for $12. That's less than half price! THAT gives me an extra $6.50 per cab I could spend on the XO. I could actually put a coil on the woofer!
Not only THAT, but hey, THESE specs are not the same as the ones were in my new catalog that I got a few months back. The 105-4's Fs has dropped from 77 Hz down to 54 ! So, off my order went.
I ran my WT3 on my 4 new drivers and got an average Fs of 1840 Hz on the tweeters. For the woofers my WT3 gave me these values (after break-in): Qts = 0.48 (quite a bit lower than advertised - which I liked), Fs = 56 (a LOT closer to the new spec of 54 Hz than to the old 77, also good), and a Vas of 0.13.
After a few runs with WinISD Pro, I decided on a 0.32 cf cab, but as I laid out a cut sheet, I discovered that I could fit all but one of the smallest panels (a 6" x 11" scrap would be needed for ONE bottom) onto a 3/4" x 24" x 48" "handy panel". I bought mine at the local "Menard's" for $3.49. I downsized the box just a bit to 0.30 cf with outside dims of 14-7/8"h x 5-7/8"w x 10-3/8"d. For the rear vent I used an old cardboard shipping tube with an id of 1-1/2" and a length of 8" for an Fb of 41Hz. WinISD predicted an F3 of 39Hz. Rediculous! How much output could a 4" woofer really have at 40 cycles, even with gobs of Xmax? I was soon to find out.
After fiddling a bit with a prototype crossover, I settled on a 6 element design that's basically 2nd order on the woofer (a coil and "Zobel") and 1st order on the tweeter, just a cap, but with a healthy L-pad for about 9dB of attenuation. The system ends up about 82dB +/-3dB, with 2-3dB of BSC. The Fc is near 4kHz. I used a 3/8" roundover bit on all external edges, and around the inside of the port exit and the backside of the baffle for some woofer relief. I used a scroll saw for the tiny 3-5/8" woofer hole, and circle hole saws for the even smaller tweeter (1-1/4" circle hole saw), the port tube (1-5/8"), and the "dreaded" spring terminals (2").
Here's a shopping cart list (the woofers are only on sale to the end of June - unless PE extends it by ANOTHER 2 mos !). As you can see, I came in 28 cents under budget! At their rated 30w, these little guys only need 7mm of throw to output 38Hz. At 32Hz they exceed that with 8 watts. I DID make them "pop" once, on the right channel, playing some Nirvana, but unless you really go nuts, they seem VERY durable for such deep bass from such tiny boxes. I've had to check to make sure my 12" sub wasn't on (low) a few times already. They can't rattle my basement door like the big sub, but for cheap little speakers, they CAN let you hear the entire recorded range.
In my budget, I didn't include terminals, ports, foam lining (everywhere but the front baffle), or boxes. Mine cost me about $2 apiece, but this project would work very well in the 0.25 cf boxes that PE sells with very little reduction in bass extension (of course, this will triple or quadruple the project price). I'd use the 1-3/8" dia. vent (260-388) and cut it to 8" for the curved box, and 7" for the "traditional" box. The 8" won't comfortably fit in there since the box is a bit shallower.
Drawings will follow in a day or two (maybe some additional pictures too).
Chris
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Inserted on 1.13.11.
(please see my NN/ntn album for the latest crossovers)
The ND105-4s are on sale for a couple months (probably) at $14.90 a pop, not $12 like last year, but still a great value. It's fine to read this earlier historical thread, and to look at the pictures, but for the latest crossover versions, you should look at the ones posted in my album. I've smoothed out about a +3dB bump around 2-3kHz, that existed last October. I've also got VERY similar response curves now for all 3 crossovers:
1) the "original" (budget) Nano Neos XO has been altered a bit, but I've held the price, so with the woofers on sale, a pair can be yours for about $61.
2) a "non-budget" XO, that includes a 2nd order HP (added a small shunt coil to help integrate the tweeter better), with a more normal looking rolloff, AND I'm suggesting using a poly cap on the tweeter instead of the npe.
3) the "ntn" XO, for my MTM version of the Nano Neos. It uses a series pair of the ND105-4s.
All resistors can be the cheap 0.24c 5w jobs, except I'd be happier if you splurge for a 10w on the "ntn" Zobel. THOSE are 0.39c each. Double drivers means more power, and more power means more heat.
eoi
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
These are 4" 2-ways in a 0.3 cf vented box using the ND105-4 woofer and the ND20FA-6 tweeter. They can musically output a 32 Hz test tone (REALLY, at about -10dB) and play strongly from 40Hz up. I know they can cleanly reach lower than BR-1s (as unbelieveable as it sounds).
This project really started around the Holidays when I bought a WT3 on sale (for $67 IIRC). Right around that time, the 2010 catalog came out, and I first saw the 6 "NEW" ND woofers. I thought all their Q's were a bit high for vented boxes, and the Fs figures didn't really impress me. Also, Dayton had a new (cheap) pair of 6.5" 2-ways for $30-something a pair. I started thinking about building an uber-budget project, and for a price point, I picked $55 (which just happens to be my age). All I could come up with (for $27.50 per side) was a DC130 and the ND20-6 tweeter. I couldn't afford ANY coil after the driver cost (almost $26.50 just for the woofer and tweeter), so the woofer had to run "full-range" (just like the big boys do it), and I had about $1 left for a cap and padding resistor for the tweeter. It wouldn't be pretty.
Fast forward to the March/April flyer. Hey, that ND105-4 is ON SALE for $12. That's less than half price! THAT gives me an extra $6.50 per cab I could spend on the XO. I could actually put a coil on the woofer!
Not only THAT, but hey, THESE specs are not the same as the ones were in my new catalog that I got a few months back. The 105-4's Fs has dropped from 77 Hz down to 54 ! So, off my order went.
I ran my WT3 on my 4 new drivers and got an average Fs of 1840 Hz on the tweeters. For the woofers my WT3 gave me these values (after break-in): Qts = 0.48 (quite a bit lower than advertised - which I liked), Fs = 56 (a LOT closer to the new spec of 54 Hz than to the old 77, also good), and a Vas of 0.13.
After a few runs with WinISD Pro, I decided on a 0.32 cf cab, but as I laid out a cut sheet, I discovered that I could fit all but one of the smallest panels (a 6" x 11" scrap would be needed for ONE bottom) onto a 3/4" x 24" x 48" "handy panel". I bought mine at the local "Menard's" for $3.49. I downsized the box just a bit to 0.30 cf with outside dims of 14-7/8"h x 5-7/8"w x 10-3/8"d. For the rear vent I used an old cardboard shipping tube with an id of 1-1/2" and a length of 8" for an Fb of 41Hz. WinISD predicted an F3 of 39Hz. Rediculous! How much output could a 4" woofer really have at 40 cycles, even with gobs of Xmax? I was soon to find out.
After fiddling a bit with a prototype crossover, I settled on a 6 element design that's basically 2nd order on the woofer (a coil and "Zobel") and 1st order on the tweeter, just a cap, but with a healthy L-pad for about 9dB of attenuation. The system ends up about 82dB +/-3dB, with 2-3dB of BSC. The Fc is near 4kHz. I used a 3/8" roundover bit on all external edges, and around the inside of the port exit and the backside of the baffle for some woofer relief. I used a scroll saw for the tiny 3-5/8" woofer hole, and circle hole saws for the even smaller tweeter (1-1/4" circle hole saw), the port tube (1-5/8"), and the "dreaded" spring terminals (2").
Here's a shopping cart list (the woofers are only on sale to the end of June - unless PE extends it by ANOTHER 2 mos !). As you can see, I came in 28 cents under budget! At their rated 30w, these little guys only need 7mm of throw to output 38Hz. At 32Hz they exceed that with 8 watts. I DID make them "pop" once, on the right channel, playing some Nirvana, but unless you really go nuts, they seem VERY durable for such deep bass from such tiny boxes. I've had to check to make sure my 12" sub wasn't on (low) a few times already. They can't rattle my basement door like the big sub, but for cheap little speakers, they CAN let you hear the entire recorded range.
In my budget, I didn't include terminals, ports, foam lining (everywhere but the front baffle), or boxes. Mine cost me about $2 apiece, but this project would work very well in the 0.25 cf boxes that PE sells with very little reduction in bass extension (of course, this will triple or quadruple the project price). I'd use the 1-3/8" dia. vent (260-388) and cut it to 8" for the curved box, and 7" for the "traditional" box. The 8" won't comfortably fit in there since the box is a bit shallower.
Drawings will follow in a day or two (maybe some additional pictures too).
Chris
Attached Files
OP, that is a really sweet setup...i've been dying to take advantage of this deal :D You don't have a picture of the finished xover do you?
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