will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

[nikbrewer]

I have a pair of M3n's and bought the drossover patrs for wolf's Dragon Foals. However, i saw a thread about the needles and someone said these drivers and crossover would work in it

here are the plans for the boxes i am talking about

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/47403-cyburgs-needle-tangband-w3-871s.html

thanks

[Mark65]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

Sorry for the hijack, but how is your revised HiVi Jr's project going?


Mark

[nikbrewer]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

i have not had a chance to order all the missing corssoverparts I dont have in stock.

They are on the back burner right now. My cnc blew a power supply and a few stepper drivers, so i am trying to sell a few car boxes to pay for the repair parts

[patrickm]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

hey - the m3n should work in the needles. wolf's filters are to tame breakups, so they'll still apply. i haven't run a revised model of the enclosure to see if there's some tweaking or bsc needed, but i think you'll still get a good result. i did zaph's b3n filter with one, and it was really good. that one does include some bsc though. either way, that's usually just one larger inductor or an RL (in parallel) in line with the other filters.

[Æ]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

I was thinking of doing some "Needles" in two ways. A 5.25 midbass and a tweeter.

[Wolf]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

The vented alignment makes up the BSC in the DF, so if you don't have a boost at the tuning frequency, you'll require some BSC.

If it works- have fun!
Wolf

[patrickm]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

i might have time sunday to run a model or give it a try and let you know. i think i have most of the parts around for a dragon foals filter, and i have m3n's in my speakers in the living room. i'll pull one out and compare it to a b3n.

[Wolf]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

Specs are very different between the 2, but it should work, I feel.
Later,
Wolf

[patrickm]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

I was thinking of doing some "Needles" in two ways. A 5.25 midbass and a tweeter.

after i get some things glued and this M3N / B3N needle test finished for nik, i'll probably measure/tweak/post the conclusion of the Copper-inspired inventory reduction RS-150-4 / Vifa BC25SC06 two-way TM if you're interested. i just have them clamped shut at the moment, but i like them. i posted the prototype crossovers a few weeks ago, but i'll do some real photos and measurements this time. eventually.

[patrickm]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

Specs are very different between the 2, but it should work, I feel.

i thought so too. haven't put them back together for the test, (hopefully tomorrow) but the modeling seems to indicate they'll work better with some very minor mods to the needle cabinet.

the version i built was out of 1/2" MDF with 3/4" wood baffles/backs, and was 5"w x 7.75"d x 36"h.

to test the tuning, you're probably better off with a 1.5"-2" or so diameter port (or multiple buyout 1" ports if you have them handy) instead of the slot port (which can be out the back, i guess), since it makes tweaking much easier. in the models i was running, i was using a 2" port x 2" length and getting reasonable results. unless i'm doing something totally wrong late at night, i think these look better than what the guys at diyaudio were modeling for a drop-in to the original needle cabinet. i also made the small end of the line a little smaller than the original, so that the expansion ratio is about 10:1, and this led to a lower F3 but a sharper rolloff. at the small end of the line, i think the little internal shelf above the slot port would be about 1" deep before the divider is attached.

for the B3N, i'd estimate the model F3 is around 45 Hz, and for the M3N it's probably 47Hz but you get more overall output. the M3N looks a little smoother overall, and with the tuning i tried in the graph below i got something similar to the broad peak wolf achieved in the dragon foals.

[Wolf]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

i thought so too. haven't put them back together for the test, (hopefully tomorrow) but the modeling seems to indicate they'll work better with some very minor mods to the needle cabinet.

the version i built was out of 1/2" MDF with 3/4" wood baffles/backs, and was 5"w x 7.75"d x 36"h.

to test the tuning, you're probably better off with a 1.5"-2" or so diameter port (or multiple buyout 1" ports if you have them handy) instead of the slot port (which can be out the back, i guess), since it makes tweaking much easier. in the models i was running, i was using a 2" port x 2" length and getting reasonable results. unless i'm doing something totally wrong late at night, i think these look better than what the guys at diyaudio were modeling for a drop-in to the original needle cabinet. i also made the small end of the line a little smaller than the original, so that the expansion ratio is about 10:1, and this led to a lower F3 but a sharper rolloff. at the small end of the line, i think the little internal shelf above the slot port would be about 1" deep before the divider is attached.

for the B3N, i'd estimate the model F3 is around 45 Hz, and for the M3N it's probably 47Hz but you get more overall output. the M3N looks a little smoother overall, and with the tuning i tried in the graph below i got something similar to the broad peak wolf achieved in the dragon foals.

Very cool! I hope these work well... Could we call them the "Dragonflies"?
Later,
Wolf

[nikbrewer]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

if someone can draw up the enclosure, ill buils a set and test this week

thanks

Nik

[Sibelius40]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

Here is a link to a site that has the dimensions - you'll have to translate cm's into inches, however.

http://www.greenie512.net/greenie512/html/needles.html

[Wolf]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

if someone can draw up the enclosure, ill buils a set and test this week

thanks

Nik

Be sure to use the ports that Patrick suggested! The slot-port is not what he recommended.
Later,
Wolf

[patrickm]

Re: will the HiVi M3N's work in the Needles?

you can do a slot port, i just haven't done the M3N version, so i don't know if it'll need any adjustment to optimize what the model had. i just thought nik might want to play with the tuning, and that's much easier with a plastic port you can cut. the one i built already has a slot port, and it's going to be a gift, so i don't plan to stuff it and cut an extra hole in the back.

(note: the sheets have a variable for the radius of the port in inches in the picture above, so take that into account if you do a conversion)

the testing hit a snag when i had to fix a car today, but i'll draw up the cabinet for you tomorrow and try to give you an opinion of the two drivers.