Pictures from Dayton 2010

[edlafontaine]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

penngray posted:
Did you consider using foam (ala Geddes) on the waveguide? Also I think adding plumbers putty to the back of the waveguide will take all "ringing" sounds out of the waveguide. Im currently measuring the differences and I like what I hear.

I have foam on hand...and the instructions with which to make a hot-wire cutter. I have begun working on the paper templates.

The throat will get attention. I'll graphically compare the 14.6 degree exit angle of the DE250 with the entrance angle of the 152i...determine a suitable thickness for shim stock & blend the two with no void/cavity. Even the outer throat of the 152i needs some smoothing...aahhh!, the pitfalls of being analytical...

Please keep me informed of your progress.

[penngray]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

What I was trying to post, is that content, listening levels, general audience focus does not favor waveguide designs.

[panomaniac]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

The audience vote actually weighs heavier than the judge's. I think Ed's speakers got good marks from the judges.

The contest goes by very fast. Many speakers you can get a feel for in a few seconds. But the really good speakers need longer than the time allowed. Sort of a "play-off" or elimination system. But that would be a 2 day affair, at least.

[penngray]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

These were final assembled on Friday evening before the show.

Let me say that PE ROCKS. I was aided in dialing in the cd (adjustment of the attenuation pot) through the availability of the measuring gear in-room. That removed one potential weakness.

These were next to last to be heard in the over $200 category. I knew before they played that it would be tough to break into the top 3.

One judge told me that he heard some "horn honk or upper mid-range cloudiness". On the drive home I came to the as-yet unproven conclusion that I overstuffed the cabs. The cab's are almost fully lined with Owens Corning 703. I used at least as much stuffing as called for through simulation. I may have been careless in distributing the stuffing...we'll see; er...hear.
On the other hand, people whose opinion I value, along with total strangers made favorable, encouraging comments.
I'll reserve my personal comments to this: it was a blast! :D

Not to be overlooked is CBT as discussed by Don Keele is the real deal.

Certainly not last: Anyone who can pass along our Best Wishes to Bogdan please do so. Let us know how he is doing.

Did you consider using foam (ala Geddes) on the waveguide? Also I think adding plumbers putty to the back of the waveguide will take all "ringing" sounds out of the waveguide. Im currently measuring the differences and I like what I hear.

btw, I also think its extremely hard for a speaker like this to place in such a broad category. The focus of the listening panel isn't going to allow this speaker to shine.

[ttan98]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

Since your 2005 paper, you have changed the design slightly, an e.g. is the FR125S and WR125S are not lined up back to back anymore. There is an offset, ie the WR125S is mounted lower, by how much? also the back tweeter(what brand and model) is crossed over(what is a the x-over network, a simple capacitor what value?) to the WR125S and mounted directly behind the FR125S if not where? etc

The above arrangement does I believe improves the sound reproduction.

[Jim Griffin]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

TTan98,

Both of my speakers I had at Dayton have long threads on diyaudio.com forums. Many folks have built their own clones with success.

Examples of links on these designs:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/81634-jordan-ribbon-mltl.html

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/BipolarMLTLDesignPak.pdf

Jim

[ttan98]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

ttan98,

<$200 is a bipole?

Yes, they are my MLTL bipolar speakers. I used CSS FR125S drivers (actually in my case FR125S and WR125S front and back). You can add a rear mounted super tweeter for a little more treble fill in the upper octave if you wish.

Jim

Congrats, for building an excellent sounding speakers for such a small amount of outlay. Not easy to achieve.

I heard about your speakers from another forum, I think you should publish the design of your speakers, I believe many enthusiasts would be interested in building them.

Cheers.

[bbcmp1979]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

eye candies... hmmm... you guys made my day, especially after Oovertime today...

[davebullet]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

Congratulations to Dan (and Paul Kittinger (?) for his Transmission Line design for the RSS265)!

Dan's got a thread over at HTGuide on the Blades. However I'm not claiming the crossover design posted there was the one he presented at the DIY.

I only wish New Zealand was closer. It would be great to attend, meet and learn.

[Zilch]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

There is this thing about imaging. The toe-in I chose was questioned by another in attendance. I took the implication to be that it was extreme. Now I have this feedback that it was to some benefit...

Unthinkable but with constant directivity, it expands the image rendition zone -- for those listening off center, the phantom image is stabilized at the center location. It must really be heard to be appreciated. The concept dates back to the 50's, actually; these modern designs allow this to be easily achieved.

I've been considering setting up the figure-8 variable toe-in rig myself. In theory, we should be able to balance the trade-off between imaging and spaciousness for any given listening space and listening distance via that adjustment. Studies indicate we'll initially favor spaciousness, even at the sacrifice of spectral and spatial accuracy, but over time, will dial back the room influence in favor of the latter, with recognition that the sameness of artificial spaciousness with all program material, while pleasurable, grows somewhat oppressive over time.... :rolleyes:

[panomaniac]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

I agree on the music selection. The first set was good, the others of not much use. But the other 2 judges liked them better, so we went on with them. I almost asked to got back to the first set, wish now that I had. :(

As others have mentioned above, the second two sets really didn't test the bigger speakers.

First set, first song - was from the soundtrack "Oh Brother Where Art Thou?" Alison Krause and choir singing "Down to the River to Pray." I didn't choose it, but was glad it was included because it's been a favorite test track of mine for years. I've hauled it around to a lot of shows. Very subtle and shows even the slightest changes in a system.

Yes, I do get around to a lot of audio shows and hear a LOT of speakers. RMAF, LSAF, the SHOW, CES, Puget Sound speaker contest, Capital Audiofest, Montreal, Dave D's Vancouver Island bash, etc. The speakers at the P.E. show where easily the equal or better than 90% of the commercial products I hear.

The Planar speakers were remarkable. So clean! I didn't want to stop listening. He said they went down to 80Hz, but it sounded lower. Didn't get a chance to talk to him. Hope to hear more from him in the future. I'd own a pair.

Shawns' were very nice (SP25). Maybe the only pair where the tweeter could actually have come up a bit. Nice work.

[Jim Griffin]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

ttan98,

<$200 is a bipole?

Yes, they are my MLTL bipolar speakers. I used CSS FR125S drivers (actually in my case FR125S and WR125S front and back). You can add a rear mounted super tweeter for a little more treble fill in the upper octave if you wish.

Jim

[robwest]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

Sweet! Thanks! Are those the 10" Genelecs that were on BO a while back?

[Froste]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

Here is Shawn's






and Ole Glory


Ed L. I would have liked to hear a bit different music thru your speakers. Plus be able listen longer!

[robwest]

Re: Pictures from Dayton 2010

Anyone got a full pic of the pair painted like 'Ole' Glory'?