Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

[Sibelius40]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Chris, I was not directing my comments directly at you, more of a broad general statement about all the comments. Everyone here has there ideas/opinions, some being threw extensive experiance (I do not fall into that category). The design just struck a fancy with me. I am a fan of paper drivers, monkey coffins, LOUD music, and my wallet is a little light.

Sometimes "great" can just be enjoying what one has, as not even the "greatest" system/set-up/room/music/etc..etc.. will be that way to everyone.

Well said! I like the idea of classic paper as well, but mainly because of the fact that in the days of classic paper drivers, large boxes, etc., it seemed like we enjoyed the music alot more, rather than becoming fixated or obsessed with determining whether the speakers we were listening to were crossed slightly too high or had a F3 that reached down below 30 hz.

[Taterworks]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

That is simply a model/unit specific issue or a problem with the installation. I have analyzed this issue in depth, and a stamped frame simply does not produce audio degradation as a LONE factor, and I have explored this in depth, and at a large range of SPL ranges, test signals and real world conditions.

-Chris

Well, then it sounds like "The Science Is In" on frame breakup. Did you have the ability to compare a cast and stamped frame version of a driver with the same moving structure and motor, mounted in a rigid baffle? Were you able to identify the natural frequency of the frame's own breakup? If you were exciting the frame near its natural frequency, you should have been able to identify the FR peak created by the frame. Then, upon locating that peak, you'd have examined the CSD plot to determine the time-domain effects of the frame resonance. However, if you weren't exciting the frame at its natural frequency, then you wouldn't have noticed anything at all.

Is this data posted online where I could see it?

[LouC]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Actually, both the woofer and mid have a stamped frame. And the fact that the mid has a stamped frame allows for it to be surface-mounted (they're desined to look nice surface-mounted). I recognize that the higher-end Peerless drivers have certain technological improvements, but I don't feel like flush-mounting that thing with its cast aluminum, truncated frame... neither would most builders.

Stamped-frames are not that evil.

Agreed, on the stamped frames.

Of course, everything would be better if it was all ScanSpeak too! With Mundorf caps! :rolleyes:

The 4 ohm version of the Peerless SDS I used in the LECBOS are producing really excellent midrange and mine are crossed at 3100. I'm assuming those 10's will run sealed . Should be a killer system. If it's going to play LOUD, I hope your resistor inventory (for padding mids) is well stocked!

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Well, then it sounds like "The Science Is In" on frame breakup. Did you have the ability to compare a cast and stamped frame version of a driver with the same moving structure and motor, mounted in a rigid baffle? Were you able to identify the natural frequency of the frame's own breakup? If you were exciting the frame near its natural frequency, you should have been able to identify the FR peak created by the frame. Then, upon locating that peak, you'd have examined the CSD plot to determine the time-domain effects of the frame resonance. However, if you weren't exciting the frame at its natural frequency, then you wouldn't have noticed anything at all.

Is this data posted online where I could see it?

Rory, I like you and Chris, but I'm going to have to ask you two to take this discussion elsewhere.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

There's still the law of physics to consider, and a reasonable size box sacrifices a lot of low end if you want even higher sensitivity.

Funny thing is, I've started construction on a very similar system, using the HDS 850439 as both mid and woofer, with a pair doing woofer duty. I'm sure they won't have the same low end that Paul's 10" will, but it should be interesting to hear them both in Iowa, eh?

I like it Paul. You always seem to get the most from the drivers you use. Can't wait to hear them.

Thanks for the compliment, Pete. I hadn't thought of bringing these to Iowa; I think that's a good target date to have them finished by. So will your creations be there?

[kevinr]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

After reading about the reply regarding a driver mounting screw not being tight and buzzing I wondered if any DIY'ers are using brass screws for driver mounting instead of steel .
Just curious

[PWR RYD]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

After reading about the reply regarding a driver mounting screw not being tight and buzzing I wondered if any DIY'ers are using brass screws for driver mounting instead of steel .
Just curious

Why brass fastener? While they may make a particular design look cool (for instance the "Coppers"), I can't see any audio or mechanical advantage to them. Especially considering they cost a lot more and typically only come in slotted round head, not Phillips pan head or hex cap head.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Thanks for the compliment, Pete. I hadn't thought of bringing these to Iowa; I think that's a good target date to have them finished by. So will your creations be there?

Well, I'll have to rent a U-haul to bring the Byzantiums, so there should be room for something else.

This one is being built primarily for sale if possible. I wanted to do something with the drivers that are just laying around. They're too nice to sit idle. I'm hoping to have the cabinets completed in a couple weeks, and then I'll spend some time voicing them as close to my Byzantiums as I can get them. Then, I'll see what Craig's List can do for me locally. Who knows? But I really would like to bring them to Iowa.

After that, I've got to get started on the NHT1259, Vifa PL18, TBFC Monkey Coffin 3-way. :D

[davepellegrene]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Why brass fastener? While they may make a particular design look cool (for instance the "Coppers"), I can't see any audio or mechanical advantage to them. Especially considering they cost a lot more and typically only come in slotted round head, not Phillips pan head or hex cap head.

I think its one of those things like high end cables.

I just googled "why use brass screws for drivers" this was the first link.
There is someone out there saying it makes a difference can't remember who it is.
Dave
Sorry Paul,
after I posted this and read the title to the thread I realized it has nothing to do with the thread.

[brianpowers27]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Paul,

I like the lines of this design. I've simmed this woofer a few times using the boundary simulator and the wbcd. I am finding with the woofer virtually at the ground level, the need for BSC is gone. This is really nice since the 100-300hz depression you would normally see all but disappears. Have you considered this for your design?

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

I'm assuming those 10's will run sealed .

Naw way man! Vented. Look at this. With 75 Watts input, you're over 106 dB! The F3 is around 30 Hz.






The vent is 4" in diameter, and 13" long.

With sealed, you actually lose power handling (how often does that happen?). It'll only take about 40 Watts, which will get you to 104 dB--still pretty loud, though.

I should add that there is a reason for all this power handling. These are meant to go in a "great room" which is quite large and has a tall, vaulted ceiling.

[mzisserson]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Agreed, everything would be better if it was all ScanSpeak too! With Mundorf caps! :rolleyes:

Ya know. Someone mentioned "reverse snobbery" around here and this thread is it in its finest.

Someone presents a perfectly good, very affordable, very cool design. However, because it does not meet the "quality" standards of some, it is bad, or not worth it?

I think it is a great design somewhat in inline with my dream of a modern spin on a classic sound. It may not have flea-fart detail, but it will be fun, listenable, and a great speaker to enjoy! I have some "low resolution" speakers I love... Why? They are not a difficult listen, you just throw on some rock and have a good time. I enjoy them as much as my high rez speakers.

Let the man work. It looks good so far!

[LouC]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

62 liters is one big box! That baby ought to pump out the noise.

Misseron: Typically this emoticon :rolleyes: is used when someone is being sarcastic. I was agreeing with Paul's statement about stamped frames. It will kill a lot of high $$ systems without a doubt. Do you like this better? " Agreed on the stamped frames.

Of course everything would sound better with Scanspeak drivers and Mundorf caps! :rolleyes:"

[foxfire3]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

"Flea-fart detail"...I like that one!:D
I agree that some of the most fun speakers to listen to are not always "technically correct" or "measure flat".
I've owned a few flat measuring commercial designs and they all went on eBay or the gon' as they were too boring for my taste.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

I agree that some of the most fun speakers to listen to are not always "technically correct" or "measure flat".

I wouldn't infer that in Paul's effort here. I'd wager that it will be both technically correct, AND measure flat. That's what a good system will do, and there's absolutely no reason Paul won't hit those targets with those drivers. They may be inexpensive, but they're well made and well behaved, as most Peerless woofers are, and should be fairly simple to shape into a very smooth system with clean reproduction.

I'll bet they'll be fun to listen to, and perhaps have bee-fart detail. :D