Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

The 10" woofer maybe the one that's in the new Von Schweikert speaker:


http://vonschweikert.com/techspecs/1.php

I don't see a picture with the grill off. How do you know?

Actually, I've always liked Von Schweikert. I've never heard one, mind you. But I like that I can quickly identify all the drivers they use in their speakers. ;) But seriously, based on their driver choices and their cabinet construction methods, I would expect them to sound quite good (or, at least have the capability to sound good. A well-voiced XO will make or break a speaker like that.)

I like the idea of a "rear-firing woofer," because it allows the front of the cabinet to be narrower. Verity does this with their designs, and they look quite elegant, in my opinion.

[ktaillon]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

The 10" woofer maybe the one that's in the new Von Schweikert speaker:


http://vonschweikert.com/techspecs/1.php

Talking about high end speakers with stamped framed drivers...

[DoubleTap]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Very lucid directions. I can work with those. But I do have two questions:
1. I hate to bring up bad memories, but what exactly happened on that "bubbled" cabinet you brought to Indiana last year (C-Quenze + RAAL)? I'd like to avoid that if at all possible. :o
2. Where's a good place to get raw veneer?

Haha, oops! For one it was my first attempt at veneering that cabinet design. Veneering over end grain of ply is very tricky, and I didn't at that point realize just how tricky. I didn't seal the cabinets like I do now, but in contrast veneering over MDF is about as straightforward as it gets.

I don't know if they would have bubbled eventually anyway, but they got left on the loading dock outside RMAF on Sunday night. When I took them down they were fine, it was about 28 degrees, and when I got home and unloaded them they were like they are now - a mess!

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Very lucid directions. I can work with those. But I do have two questions:
1. I hate to bring up bad memories, but what exactly happened on that "bubbled" cabinet you brought to Indiana last year (C-Quenze + RAAL)? I'd like to avoid that if at all possible. :o
2. Where's a good place to get raw veneer?

He left them outside in the cold for 5 minutes. That's all it took.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

Does that make sense? Obviously it's a bit hard to put into words but I think anybody proficient enough to build cabinets in the first place can figure it out once they get going.

Very lucid directions. I can work with those. But I do have two questions:
1. I hate to bring up bad memories, but what exactly happened on that "bubbled" cabinet you brought to Indiana last year (C-Quenze + RAAL)? I'd like to avoid that if at all possible. :o
2. Where's a good place to get raw veneer?

[DoubleTap]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

THAT got my attention. I think we need to talk, Ryan. Never done raw veneer before, but you're definitely selling me on the idea. I've done PVA/Iron-on and found it to be not a lot of fun... something about going over and over the same spots again and again until it FINALLY all stuck just got tedious. I found the water-based contact cement very easy to work with, so that's probably what I'd do. However, if what you're saying about raw veneer [cold press] is true, then I'm definitely willing to give it a shot.

Oh, by the way, these are not for a garage. They're for a large "great room" with a cathedral ceiling, at my parents' vacation house in Michigan. The house is trimmed with mostly golden oak, but my parents are open to any wood. I just want it to look expensive.

The crotch always gets a man's attention :D

On flat panels, there's really nothing to worry about using raw veneer. What I do is cut some scrap MDF to where you have pieces just a hair bigger than the panels you're covering. You use those pieces as the press, just clamp them onto the veneered surface to keep it flat while the cold press glue dries.

More detail - for your speaker in particular, you'll probably want a couple MDF pieces for each of the parallel surfaces. That way you can press 2 panels at one time. Use the cold press glue ftrom veneersupplies.com (plenty of others around, but I like theirs best personally), apply it per instructions (buy one of the $5 glue rollers from them while you're at it). I guess back up a bit, say you use that full Crotch veneer - you'd want to find sheets wide enough so that one sheet will cover a full panel, or you could get half crotch and splice it, but full crotch sheets wide and long enough are readily available so might as well do that. But if you go with something else like a Pao Ferro, most other exotics look best when you bookmatch, meaning you'd need to splice to mirror image sheets together for each panel, with the splice line centered on each panel. Sounds tricky if you haven't done it, but it's not. You simply use a firm straightedge and a sharp razor blade to cut perfect edges, match the two pieces up, and use the very easy to use veneer tape to join them. Make your final pieces a bit oversized for trimming.

From that point whether you splice for a bookmatch or use single pieces large enough to cover a panel, you proceed to cold press. Say you're doing the two sides of the bottom bin, have two pieces of scrap MDF ... apply glue to veneer and substrate for one side, align and lay the veneer down, roll it out a bit with whatever you have (like a J-roller or even a kitchen rolling pin). You don't need a ton of pressure, just making sure there's no air under the veneer. Once it's flat, lay that panel face down onto one of your scrap press MDF pieces ... then do the other side, and place that MDF piece on top to make a sandwich. Then put clamps all around the sandwich to apply even pressure, not full clamp pressure but say 3/4. Let that sit for a couple hours then take the clamps and scrap MDF pieces off, trim the excess veneer and sand the edges flush, then proceed to the next pair of parallel panels. So obviously there would be 3 such operations per pair of 6 sided cabinets.

I've had a near 100% success rate using this method. The only problems have been when doing very large panels, you need to get enough pressure into the center of the MDF press piece - since your clamps are around the perimeter the center can bow up. To fix that problem use a 2"x4" turned on it's side and apply the clamps to it, the 2x4 running across the panel.

Does that make sense? Obviously it's a bit hard to put into words but I think anybody proficient enough to build cabinets in the first place can figure it out once they get going. The process takes more time than contact cement, but I don't think is any harder ... and cold press is a better bond than contact cement.

[LouC]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

There are a bunch of recipes depending on what you want for base color and pore fill color. This reference from Jeff Jewitt is a great place to start. I've played with both Ash & Oak, but here's a generic process:

1. Sand everything down to about 150/180. Wet with distilled water then resand with 220.
   
2. Using distilled water & TransTint dye, flood the piece with the base color, wipe dry.
   
3. Seal with vinyl sealer, or dewaxed shellac. Scuff sand with fine grit or synthetic steel wool to get the "flat's" smooth.
   
4. Mix up the pore filler in a glazing liquid (faux finishing), work it into the pores, scrape it off and let it dry.
   
5. Seal again with vinyl sealer or dewaxed shellac.
   
6. Apply your final clear coat.

You can use essentially the same process for any dye/ pore fill combo like I did on the Sparkies Red/Gold (White Ash is probably best for this)

[brianpowers27]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

I just bought from this ebay seller and had good luck.
http://shop.ebay.com/rosebudveneer/m...&_trksid=p3686

I tried the iron on method (pva)for the first time last week and found that it is tricky. I was told that there is no substitution for a foam roller.

[Wolf]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

FWIW on the wood-backed or raw veneer, as long as you can lay it *flat* on the surface when bonding like Ryan says, my uncle recommended rolling on regular wood glue, and bonding it wet between the panel and plywood or MDF using cinder-blocks as clamps. He works for a cabinet company, and that's how they do it. Pretty simple sounding to me!
Later,
Wolf

[fastbike1]

Re: Veneer ideas?

Yes Lou, please spill. I have read some fairly involved ways to do that finish, but you strike me as a practical guy that will have a trick or two.

Yes, I do. Not on this project, but I definitely want to know how to do that for future reference. My parents' regular house is full of Stickley furniture. They LOVE it.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Veneer ideas?

Want to try a Stickley/Mission Oak finish?

Yes, I do. Not on this project, but I definitely want to know how to do that for future reference. My parents' regular house is full of Stickley furniture. They LOVE it.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

You guys have no creativity

How about something a little more inspired, like this for example

THAT got my attention. I think we need to talk, Ryan. Never done raw veneer before, but you're definitely selling me on the idea. I've done PVA/Iron-on and found it to be not a lot of fun... something about going over and over the same spots again and again until it FINALLY all stuck just got tedious. I found the water-based contact cement very easy to work with, so that's probably what I'd do. However, if what you're saying about raw veneer [cold press] is true, then I'm definitely willing to give it a shot.

Oh, by the way, these are not for a garage. They're for a large "great room" with a cathedral ceiling, at my parents' vacation house in Michigan. The house is trimmed with mostly golden oak, but my parents are open to any wood. I just want it to look expensive.

[LouC]

Re: Veneer ideas?

Any suggestions for veneer? Anyone have any inspirational pics?

Since that's already a two piece box, maybe do pieces (or panels) in different veneers. We did a kitchen in cherry with maple trim that was pretty stunning

Want to try a Stickley/Mission Oak finish?



Or Hickory/Pecan with just a bit of clear:

[mightym]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

IIRC these were for a garage?

Splatter 'em with truck bed liner!

[Face]

Re: Next up in the shop: a LOUD, paper-cone 3 way

How about Plasti Dip? :D