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  • #91
    Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

    I have been studying a lot of DIY designs since I started coming here. This design using the 4 woofers in series/parallel looks like what I want to build.

    I have a couple of questions about what I want to do related to Pete's build:

    Would there be any advantage to rolling off two of the bottom woofers like in the Elsinore build? Maybe bumping the cross to the mid a little higher. I have a pair of Peerless 832873 I want to use for the mids. This relates to why I thought bumping the cross to the mids might help with male vocals/lower mid range.

    What are your thoughts on box volume for the 4 woofers is appropriate? My first attempt with UniBox showed just over 2 cubic feet, the Elsinore has 2.7 and the port values are different there also. Almost 4" x 12" for UniBox and like 3.4" by 3.5" for the Elsinore.

    I am considering the Vifa XT25TG30-04 set in a shallow wave guide for the tweeters. Seems like it would help with the depth/timing in relation to the other speakers, so any input here is helpful.

    Ok so I am probably messing up my UniBox attempt some where and I am comparing apples to oranges. So any input, positive or negative is appreciated!



    Thanks!
    David

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

      Originally posted by Dabspok View Post
      I have been studying a lot of DIY designs since I started coming here. This design using the 4 woofers in series/parallel looks like what I want to build.

      I have a couple of questions about what I want to do related to Pete's build:

      Would there be any advantage to rolling off two of the bottom woofers like in the Elsinore build? Maybe bumping the cross to the mid a little higher. I have a pair of Peerless 832873 I want to use for the mids. This relates to why I thought bumping the cross to the mids might help with male vocals/lower mid range.

      What are your thoughts on box volume for the 4 woofers is appropriate? My first attempt with UniBox showed just over 2 cubic feet, the Elsinore has 2.7 and the port values are different there also. Almost 4" x 12" for UniBox and like 3.4" by 3.5" for the Elsinore.

      I am considering the Vifa XT25TG30-04 set in a shallow wave guide for the tweeters. Seems like it would help with the depth/timing in relation to the other speakers, so any input here is helpful.

      Ok so I am probably messing up my UniBox attempt some where and I am comparing apples to oranges. So any input, positive or negative is appreciated!



      Thanks!
      David
      This design is only two woofers in parallel, with a third identical woofer used as a dedicated mid. It could be scaled up to 4 woofers instead of the two. And there's no reason that you couldn't convert it to a 3.5-way. But I'm not sure the added complexity is warranted. In this design, the mid is crossed at roughly 500Hz, 2nd order acoustic, with a 1st order HP filter. Even your smaller mids will do just fine at that crossover point, which falls right in the middle of the baffle step region, making the use of multiple woofers almost ideal, especially these Peerless woofers with their smooth and gradually rising response.

      What were you going to use for woofers?
      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

        I plan on using Peerless 830875 or 830874 for the woofers. I listened to some Paradigm and their lower woofers are polypropylene similar to the 874's. But it seems like the 875's might have the most detailed sound.

        I saw that the Elsinores use of the 4 woofers in series/parallel had some benefits for the baffle stepping, although my box will be narrower like yours. Keeping the crossover simpler is a good thing so I probably won't pursue that.

        If I can ask also, how critical is the round over on the baffle? I plan only a 1/4" radius on the edge. Any thought on the shallow wave guide?

        Thanks for the reply Pete!

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

          Originally posted by Dabspok View Post
          I plan on using Peerless 830875 or 830874 for the woofers. I listened to some Paradigm and their lower woofers are polypropylene similar to the 874's. But it seems like the 875's might have the most detailed sound.

          I saw that the Elsinores use of the 4 woofers in series/parallel had some benefits for the baffle stepping, although my box will be narrower like yours. Keeping the crossover simpler is a good thing so I probably won't pursue that.

          If I can ask also, how critical is the round over on the baffle? I plan only a 1/4" radius on the edge. Any thought on the shallow wave guide?

          Thanks for the reply Pete!
          All your suggestions can work just fine. The roundover I used is mainly for looks, as you really need roundovers larger than .75" to be truly effective. And a waveguide is a good idea.

          I don't know that the cone material in these HDS drivers is all that critical. The sandwich cones I used are every bit as detailed as any paper cone version. I don't think you could go wrong with either version for your woofers. I'd get the material that most closely matches those mids, for looks alone.

          Just keep in mind that you've got a 100% different design and that the only thing you can really take from this crossover might be the woofer circuit.
          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

            I wondered if your woofer circuit would still work. The baffle will be the same width, but I wasn't sure how the box volume would affect the crossover.
            There is a lot of information here and it can seem a bit over whelming with all of the variables involved. As a complete novice I really appreciate your input!
            Thank you Joe!

            Now I'm off to work on modeling some more. :D

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

              Originally posted by Dabspok View Post
              I wondered if your woofer circuit would still work. The baffle will be the same width, but I wasn't sure how the box volume would affect the crossover.
              There is a lot of information here and it can seem a bit over whelming with all of the variables involved. As a complete novice I really appreciate your input!
              Thank you Joe!

              Now I'm off to work on modeling some more. :D
              Well, it will only work if you go with two woofers in parallel. If you do scale up to 4 woofers, simply double the inductance and halve the capacitance and the overall transfer function should stay the same.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                Super. As part of my learning, I may build the box and install the mid and the tweeter in the closed section and install the woofers later, after I have modeled and tinkered with the mid and tweeter.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                  PETE! I have 8 Peerless 831735 woofers on the way! Any suggestions for the tweeter? I had seen where the Vifa XT25TG30-04 works well with a wave guide partially because of its center wave guide. But I see where you used the Seas 27TBFC/G. Now I see the testing being done by davepellegrene with wave guides...

                  I have two Dayton 6 1/2" wave guides that I have planned to mill the threaded part off of as I have seen done in some of the forums. I was planning to use in with the XT25TG60-4 same as the Elsinore. But I saw in the review that they though the tweeter was "polite" in the lower range.

                  I am over thinking this aren't I?


                  Thanks, David

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                    Originally posted by Dabspok View Post
                    PETE! I have 8 Peerless 831735 woofers on the way! Any suggestions for the tweeter? I had seen where the Vifa XT25TG30-04 works well with a wave guide partially because of its center wave guide. But I see where you used the Seas 27TBFC/G. Now I see the testing being done by davepellegrene with wave guides...

                    I have two Dayton 6 1/2" wave guides that I have planned to mill the threaded part off of as I have seen done in some of the forums. I was planning to use in with the XT25TG60-4 same as the Elsinore. But I saw in the review that they though the tweeter was "polite" in the lower range.

                    I am over thinking this aren't I?


                    Thanks, David
                    The XT25 would probably work with that guide and allow you to cross around 2000Hz when you see what the guide does for the XT19 and the boost it gives down low (see below).

                    Without the guide, I'd look for a different tweeter.

                    As for "polite" sounding, that's a fair assessment of the XT25. Very smooth, but it doesn't call attention to itself.

                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                      Ok then. Looks like I'll stick with the XT25 then. I'll save my lust for the TangBand Berellium tweeter for when I have more experience. lol

                      Thanks Pete.

                      I'll be starting a build thread soon for these.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                        Finally have all of the drivers. Eight Peerless 831735 6 1/2", two Peerless 832873 5 1/4" and two Seas 27TBFC/G tweeters. After doing a lot of reading I decided to use the Seas tweeter. I think the box is pretty much sorted out and I am attempting the next phase of learning, the cross over design... I ham still a bit confused about the creation of the diffraction model and combining it onto the graph from the factory. Much more reading and working with the software ahead.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                          Originally posted by Dabspok View Post
                          Finally have all of the drivers. Eight Peerless 831735 6 1/2", two Peerless 832873 5 1/4" and two Seas 27TBFC/G tweeters. After doing a lot of reading I decided to use the Seas tweeter. I think the box is pretty much sorted out and I am attempting the next phase of learning, the cross over design... I ham still a bit confused about the creation of the diffraction model and combining it onto the graph from the factory. Much more reading and working with the software ahead.
                          Probably time to launch a new thread to document your build! ;)
                          R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                          Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                          95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                          "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                            Oh.. this is gonna be good!!:D

                            Comment


                            • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=230948

                              Bumped it back to the top. Study, study, study I will!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Peerless 6 woofer 3-way under way

                                It was easy enough to add all those pieces, so why not?!!!



                                Thanks Ray. I've put a lot of love into getting these looking good, despite daily temps in the upper 90s!!!

                                Now I just have to decide on a finish, and maybe add some grilles, though I've NEVER built a set of grilles.
                                hard to make grills when you're that close to the edge with the drivers, but why hide the speakers anyway?

                                Comment

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