Interesting Read

[robertclark]

I found this over on the the Madisound board:

Students at Michigan Tech are publishing speaker designs at:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/

A few highlights:

Super flat two-way tower for studio monitor usage:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/monitor-1-by-keith-kinnear/

A single driver horn system:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/audrey-horn-loaded-system/

A system with an exceptionally low tweeter crossover:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/hello-world/

[mzisserson]

Re: Interesting Read

I found this over on the the Madisound board:

Students at Michigan Tech are publishing speaker designs at:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/

A few highlights:

Super flat two-way tower for studio monitor usage:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/monitor-1-by-keith-kinnear/

A single driver horn system:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/28/audrey-horn-loaded-system/

A system with an exceptionally low tweeter crossover:
http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/hello-world/

Cute! It would be interesting to have a listen... See what they know vs. what they think they know.

[MSaturn]

Re: Interesting Read

Well, it's a good thing they're using AirCircs .. there aren't many tweeters that can go as low as that last dude made it. That port is WAY too small, though.

Too bad about the horn-loaded kid thinking his speaker is 'naturally phase-aligned' .. whizzer cones are some of the only non-minimum-phase things in the speaker world ..

Also, I'm not sure how they're measuring HD, but they're doing it wrong from the looks of it.

It is awesome, however, to see something like this happening .. probably should have started them off with cheaper drivers, though, to learn more of the basics. Considering this appears to be the product of a single course or something, whoever's teaching it A. knows what they're doing and B. has a massive budget.

[Face]

Re: Interesting Read

Well, it's a good thing they're using AirCircs .. there aren't many tweeters that can go as low as that last dude made it. That port is WAY too small, though.

Where did you read Air Circ? It says DX25 in his paper. FYI, tried a similar crossover with an Airc Circ and it sounded awful.

Since he only listens at 65dB, I doubt there will be any port noise.

EDIT, I assumed you were talking about the third article due to your mention of port size.

[davidl]

Re: Interesting Read

Cute! It would be interesting to have a listen... See what they know vs. what they think they know.

Sort of like you
At least they are making measurements on the completed systems unlike a lot of builders on here who just play with Jeff's PCD and assume the end results match the predicted.:rolleyes: Not a knock on Jeff's wonderful software, just that some people assume what they input is true when in fact they might be off quite a bit. Having an acoustic measuring system is dirt cheap now and really no excuse not to make sure the results meet the predictions. If they don't, you screwed up somewhere.

[mzisserson]

Re: Interesting Read

Sort of like you
At least they are making measurements on the completed systems unlike a lot of builders on here who just play with Jeff's PCD and assume the end results match the predicted.:rolleyes: Not a knock on Jeff's wonderful software, just that some people assume what they input is true when in fact they might be off quite a bit. Having an acoustic measuring system is dirt cheap now and really no excuse not to make sure the results meet the predictions. If they don't, you screwed up somewhere.

Who says I do not measure? My capability is somewhat limited, but I do measure.

Science first, then the subjective stuff. But it is a means to the end, which is where I usually have to put on an asbestos suit. Like a sizable amount of builders, I would be willing to bet they have very limited knowledge of 2 key points:

1) WHAT a truly remarkable speaker sounds like

2) How to mesh the science with what actual music sounds like live and un-amplified.

I think it is funny there is this preconceived notion that good drivers and a flat, measured curve equates to good sound.

[Face]

Re: Interesting Read

Sort of like you

You're a class act.

[auracle]

Re: Interesting Read

Sort of like you
At least they are making measurements on the completed systems unlike a lot of builders on here who just play with Jeff's PCD and assume the end results match the predicted.:rolleyes: Not a knock on Jeff's wonderful software, just that some people assume what they input is true when in fact they might be off quite a bit. Having an acoustic measuring system is dirt cheap now and really no excuse not to make sure the results meet the predictions. If they don't, you screwed up somewhere.

LOL!!

These projects have far more performance documentation than most of the builds you'll find on internet forums. While some of the response measurements provided are indeed suspect or lacking documentation - a good number of the "expert" build threads one can find online are jokes by comparison. There are a multitude of internet forum "build threads" that have turned into essentially facebook chat walls for "expert builders" who are so impressed with themselves - they haven't bothered to produce half the variety of measurements these students have provided - and this is after producing hundreds of pages of blather spread out over literally more than a year's time. The reasons for this are as varied as the qualifications of the "experts" themselves. Some of it is intentional - they don't want to reveal any of the problems associated with their designs. Some of it is sheer laziness. Some of it is due to a lack of time (the super long build threads can't use this one as a legitimate excuse). Some of it is due to a lack of knowledge. Sometimes the builder would rather spend more of his/her time trying to impress others with pages of useless knowledge to help soothe the symptoms of an ego problem than to carefully document the successes and pitfalls of an involved build. Some of it is due to a lack of resources.And in some instances, more than one of these factors contributes to a pretty uninformative build thread.

The subjects of this thread and some of the completed PE build threads really do serve as models for all of us to strive towards - and should be regarded as such. I'm fairly new to speaker building forums. And I'm still learning from others as to what is desirable and what isn't in a build thread. It's easy to complain about other's build threads. But these build threads, IMO, are definitely praiseworthy.

Thanks for this thread RobertClark. It's good to see that some of the nation's secondary schools are demonstrating keen interest and solid achievements in the speaker building industry.

[mzisserson]

Re: Interesting Read

But these builds, IMO, are definitely praiseworthy.

I guess this says it all. You have never heard them, and think they are good. I guess that is as bad as brilliant pebbles or power cords.

Furthermore, what are your credentials? Has anyone heard your speakers? Hummm........ :rolleyes:

Besides, you are so close-minded. Why do you not consider other points of view? It is only when you think you know it all, you know the least. Intelligence is no sign of wisdom, and you may have the book smarts, but are you wise enough to put it to use in the right places.

It is also said empty vessels make the loudest noise... You have done nothing but come here and balabber with no builds or anything to really show what you know. I guess the lines are fine.

I was reminiscing on my journey into this hobby with my "cute" remark. Oh, did I try for flat, perfectly measurable speakers. It was not until I focused on the strong correlation between what is heard and what's on paper, and worked on attaining knowledge of what live instruments, good speakers, and how it all goes together in a design, that I was able to break the shell of very "regular" sounding speakers. This took years. Perhaps more than someone else, but I have herd hundreds and hundreds of retail and DIY designs, live and un-apmlified instruments, and have found very strong relationships between what we hear, and what defines a good speaker.

Has my journey been different? Perhaps. Is it wrong? Nope. Are my designs perfect, not a chance! Are they well accepted? So far, so good, but the pile of poor performers I have lying around are proof I am nowhere near where I shoudl be.

Keep meddling in small, meaningless facts that make you happy to bully others around with. I will continue to sleep well, as will the others I know who are on a similar path who I have heard some very nice sounding speakers from. This is the last word to you from me Mr. "Auracle".

Edit: Starting a thread with "LOL" usually discounts your credibility down to "giddy teenage girl" status. At least to me.

[auracle]

Re: Interesting Read

Chill out. What I meant to say was "build threads" not builds. I will fix it, so don't get your knickers in a twist, ok? I haven't heard these speakers. But the threads look pretty detailed and are backed up by a lot of measurements.

Relax. Take a chill pill...;)

[davidl]

Re: Interesting Read

You're a class act.

Hush Mr subjectivist
:rolleyes:

[davidl]

Re: Interesting Read

Besides, you are so close-minded. Why do you not consider other points of view? It is only when you think you know it all, you know the least.

Says the person who also said "Cute! It would be interesting to have a listen... See what they know vs. what they think they know."

Your two facedness is showing:D

[MSaturn]

Re: Interesting Read

I'm personally glad they were guided to the correct standards of linear response and low distortion :D

Except Fostex drivers aren't known for either of those. Oh well.

[neildavis]

Re: Interesting Read

I found this over on the the Madisound board:

Students at Michigan Tech are publishing speaker designs at:

http://areteaudio.wordpress.com/

MTU has come up with some interesting projects in previous years. Their winter carnival usually has some impressive snow horns:

http://audio.students.mtu.edu/gallery/index.php

[Zach C.]

Re: Interesting Read

That's awesome!