Flat Response

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Flat Response

By my thesis, they also want enhanced spaciousness, which is not on the recording, and a diffuse soundstage, as delivered by wide directivity....

Bose 901??

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

That all being the case, then is it reasonable to conclude that a typical modern (or modern re-mastered) classical recording delivers what the conductor hears, and NOT the program as experienced in the 15th row?

No . . . the perspective from the microphones is different from the perspective at the podium. Even moving the microphones a few feet can make a surprisingly large difference. The recording engineer will generally have tried to find a microphone position (and/or mix) that balances to an audience perspective, not to the podium, and that achieves a blend of direct and reverberant sound. And the conductor is one of the performers, not an audience of one. A good conductor learns the balances at the podium that sound "right" in the hall (and will change direction considerably in different halls, or outdoors, in response to both the stage reflections and the hall reverberation).

[Zilch]

Re: Flat Response

I'm guessing no from this. An ORTF pair on the podium might be better and easier.

Perhaps the conductor stuffs them behind the chair so he can hear what the audience hears. ;)

Bose 901??

Indeed so. An AR3a debate on another forum concluded abruptly with that revelation.

It's not real hard to see the correlation between Bose's early design philosophy and Villchur's; they were pursuing the same target at the time, and "live performance" remains part of Bose hype, even today....

Bose® 901® Direct/Reflecting® stereo speakers bring the warmth, power and excitement of a concert hall or movie theater to your home. Only live sounds better.

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

All three of you?

More than three in this thread alone.

How many live performances of "classical" music have *you* attended this year?

[dantheman]

Re: Flat Response

Pete, that's funny. Logically the solution should be on the recording end, not the speaker. Speakers and the recording industry need a standardization to some degree like THX. Who wants a speaker/stereo system built for one thing?
I think AMIGA in East Germany were the first people to actually do this.:eek: But that's just hear say. I don't know that for a fact.

Dan

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

Deward, it seems like that you are saying is that they just need to roll of the highs to create a satisfying experience for the end user classical music aficionado.

Nope. Not saying that.

Is there something else?

Yep. Lots "else".

I mean there's essentially no way to make it perfect, but would that make it listenable?

Sometimes. Depends on what you're listening for. Overall timbre, balance, the sound (intonation) of individual instruments (bowing, lip, etc.), localization, "image" . . . and a musician might be listening only for phrasing and tempo and not care about any of that. But to simply "roll of the highs" is not what produces a "High Fidelity" reproduction.

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

By my thesis

And how many concerts of live classical music have you attended this year to develop that "thesis"?

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

An ORTF pair on the podium might be better and easier.

That would come closer to what the conductor hears . . . but it's not what the audience hears. It would be akin, when recording a rock concert, to listening to the stage monitor feeds at the mixer . . . that being closer to what the band hears than what the audience hears . . .

[Zilch]

Re: Flat Response

Can I bring an RTA...?

http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/audio_phonic_paa_portable/

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

Bose 901??

Fails on clarity, imaging, balance and a lot of other things. They might actually work pretty well as "surround" speakers for multi-channel . . .

[dantheman]

Re: Flat Response

They definitely wouldn't work well for SS either.

Deward, what does a speaker have to do with intonation?

Dan

[dantheman]

Re: Flat Response

That would come closer to what the conductor hears . . . but it's not what the audience hears. It would be akin, when recording a rock concert, to listening to the stage monitor feeds at the mixer . . . that being closer to what the band hears than what the audience hears . . .

Exactly. That's what Zilch asked for if you read what I replied to.

To me the thing is almost "why try to reproduce the original?" We can have so much better.:eek: Most people I know prefer studio albums. I like live performances, but I've never heard one recorded that sounds like I'm at the concert. I don't think I'd really want it to--we can have better. What was is Stravinsky said? "How can we continue to prefer reality to ideal stereophony?" Milton Babbitt likened the live performance to reading a novel on a large movie screen at a theater instead of holding it in your hand at home and describes it as uncomfortable and the audience is left "unable to repeat something they have missed".

An interesting alternative,

Dan

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

what does a speaker have to do with intonation?

Musicians commonly use "intonation" to refer not just to pitch but to the harmonic structure of a note. Changing lip or wind pressure produces change in the "sound" that can be masked or distorted by frequency response variations or by additional harmonic distortion in the loudspeaker. And changing the harmonic structure can also change our *perception* of pitch, even if the fundamental doesn't change in frequency. It is possible to sound sharp without being sharp . . . in part because the harmonics are not even tempered. One wants to hear low harmonic distortion, low intermodulation distortion, and smooth frequency response, at least up to the 4th or 5th harmonic.

[Deward Hastings]

Re: Flat Response

I like live performances, but I've never heard one recorded that sounds like I'm at the concert.

Maybe you need better speakers . . . :rolleyes:

[dantheman]

Re: Flat Response

So how can a speaker modify the mystery of the recording process to intonate properly? Sorry, that's what I should have wrote. IOW, why does rolling off the highs and whatever else you think needs fixin for classical music reproduction, change the recording back to it's original intonation? How do you "fix" a speaker to intonate the recording correctly? What is your "ideal" classical music speaker--what traits does is possess? FR, Polar, distortion, etc...

Thanks,

Dan