Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

[BELAMP]

I've said it before ... I have never heard a digital amplifier I liked. But it has been probably 3-4 years since I last heard a digital amp, and I figure with technology moving forward so fast ....

So yesterday I found myself all kinds of excited to have been invited to a local's house, to listen to his freshly broken in Bel Canto REF1000M MKII Mono Amplifiers ! He was going to be comparing them with his two year old Wyred 4 Sound SX 1000 mono blocks ... Two digital amps, that are supposed to be the very best on the market at this time ...

Both had awesome transient speed and attack, with taut and fast bass. Neither of them had even ONE BIT of texture, or harmonic richness. Neither made vocalists sound like real human beings. Both sounded somewhat dry and "whitish" ....

I left so friggin disappointed .... I keep waiting on a digital amp, with it's wonderfully small footprint, and cool, efficient operation to replace my big Class A mono blocks, but not until someone can take the artificial digital sound from their presentation .... FAIL.

[killersoundz]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

:eek:


My personal opinion is there are *a lot* of variables going on that make a bigger difference than the AMPLIFIER. Maybe like the recording/mixing & mastering of whatever you're listening to. Perhaps something called the speakers.

What music were you listening to? Were you listening to a record you're very familiar with that you've listened to 1,000 times? If not, this thread is ranting.

No one in the recording/mixing & mastering process of the music you listened to used a tube amp (unless we're talking about guitars). The fact that anyone uses a tube amp for music playback is purely their taste. For me I'd rather hear the music as it was engineered, not glossed over by an amplifier.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

.... FAIL.

ARSIS, is that you?

[MSaturn]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

heh, I'm calling psychoacoustic preference.

what would you have done if you couldn't see the amps and he told you they were class A, made by cyborg virgins in japan?

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

LOL .... Lets see now. I have been professionally involved in high end audio since 1982. I am a recording engineer since 1993. I owned my own high end audio store for almost 5 years ....

Yet I do not know what I am hearing, or how to take into account the related system ? LOL ... If you say so.

Anyway, my opinion is not valid anyway :rolleyes:

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

heh, I'm calling psychoacoustic preference.

what would you have done if you couldn't see the amps and he told you they were class A, made by cyborg virgins in japan?

Why ... I would have de-flowered the Japanese virgins, of course ! Sheesh :p

[MSaturn]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

No, I'm dead serious. What are you hearing that the rest of us aren't? Those digital amps operate even more silently than your class-A jobs, I'm almost certain; not that you could actually hear the difference within the amplifier's operating range.

I just can't take "I heard it so it's true," especially since you started off by saying you already didn't like digital.

What sounds good to you is your business, but so far you've made it pretty obvious you're into some nearly-magical stuff. Remember this is a DIY forum - most people are into bang-for-buck stuff, not $20,000 hand-crafted stuff.

Good example of digital quality is Fagen's "Nightfly," and that's way early digital. It really has nothing to do with the process.

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

No, I'm dead serious. What are you hearing that the rest of us aren't? Those digital amps operate even more silently than your class-A jobs, I'm almost certain; not that you could actually hear the difference within the amplifier's operating range.

I just can't take "I heard it so it's true," especially since you started off by saying you already didn't like digital.

What sounds good to you is your business, but so far you've made it pretty obvious you're into some nearly-magical stuff. Remember this is a DIY forum - most people are into bang-for-buck stuff, not $20,000 hand-crafted stuff.

Good example of digital quality is Fagen's "Nightfly," and that's way early digital. It really has nothing to do with the process.

What do I hear that YOU may not ? Possibly a whole lot.

And you comment about my mono-blocks being "$20,000 hand crafted stuff" ? You know not of what you speak. You can get the same amps that I use off Audiogon for approx $900.

Get yer facts straight before refuting MY OPINION ...;)

[Guest]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

I've said it before ... I have never heard a digital amplifier I liked.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Both had awesome transient speed and attack, with taut and fast bass. Neither of them had even ONE BIT of texture, or harmonic richness.

What is a digital amp, anyway?

I don't think amps (or wires, or speakers for that matter) should impart texture or harmonic richness. In a different context those attributes would be considered defects in accuracy. That's my opinion.

The important thing, I guess, is that your audio system makes you happy.

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

What is a digital amp, anyway?

I don't think amps (or wires, or speakers for that matter) should impart texture or harmonic richness. In a different context those attributes would be considered defects in accuracy. That's my opinion.

The important thing, I guess, is that your audio system makes you happy.

Very well put sir ! I incorrectly call all of the newer technology "digital" ... I shouldn't do that. What I mean is, I have never heard any of the newer technologies such as Hypex, or Ice that I like yet .... And I want to.

And speaking of " I want to" ..... It is funny ya know ... every forum has it;s own personality. This is a strange place to read and post for me. For me, this is a public chat forum, where all opinions should be welcome. I come here personally to learn, share, and just chat ...

And somehow, I think there are a lot of members who have "conspiracy theories " going ... LOL I mean, I post an opinion about something, with ABSOLUTELY ZERO agenda behind it ... Just like this thread. I thought someone may read this and find it interesting .... THAT IS ALL.

I posted it for no other reason, yet look at the replies back to me ...
It seems as if nearly everyone feels a need to challenge my opinion. I have no agenda, and no desire to discuss why YOU feel I am incorrect in having my own opinion ...

Just funny to me ... My opinion is mine, and that is all there is to it.
So summing this rant up .... Like I said, "I want to" ... I truly want to find these small new efficient amps sound as good as really good Class A or Class AB amps. When I do, I will buy a pair on the spot.

Cheers

[MSaturn]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

conspiracy theory? more like, you know, fact.

When you talk about what you're hearing, it's fallacious to even begin with a bunch of brand name-dropping. That really doesn't matter. You really are setting yourself up to have your 'hearing' changed. It's easy to do - I've always had a thing for certain gear, even though I know it's silly.

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

What are you hearing that the rest of us aren't?

Distortion. Digital is pristine clean, analog in general and tubes in particular add coloration. Not that there's anything wrong with that, if it sounds good it is good. If colored sound is what you want then don't listen to digital, simple as that.

[evilskillit]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

Nitpick, if we're talking Class-D amps they're not digital. Having said that I would like to hear some really good class D amps to see what all the fuss/nonfuss is about. Maybe a very clean signal source is too weird for those of us who have grown up listening to tubes or class a and a/b devices all our life.

I sort of liken it to 120hz video. Most people of our generation think it looks weird or cheezy like soap operas (because soaps are recorded on video at 30fps. We're used to the good stuff being on film at 24fps with all the motion blur and artifacts that come along with it. I think we'll be that way till we die, but I bet our kids will love listening to stuff on class-d amps and enjoy 120hz video and wonder how we ever got by on the junk we had when we were their age...

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

conspiracy theory? more like, you know, fact.

When you talk about what you're hearing, it's fallacious to even begin with a bunch of brand name-dropping. That really doesn't matter. You really are setting yourself up to have your 'hearing' changed. It's easy to do - I've always had a thing for certain gear, even though I know it's silly.

You really ARE from Saturn huh ? I really tire of telling you, so this is the last time. It is NOT a fact that I want to bash a certain brand name ... I just do not like what they offer for SQ.

No conspiracy, just an opinion.

[BELAMP]

Re: Disappointed with Digital amplifiers ... again

Nitpick, if we're talking Class-D amps they're not digital. Having said that I would like to hear some really good class D amps to see what all the fuss/nonfuss is about. Maybe a very clean signal source is too weird for those of us who have grown up listening to tubes or class a and a/b devices all our life.

I sort of liken it to 120hz video. Most people of our generation think it looks weird or cheezy like soap operas (because soaps are recorded on video at 30fps. We're used to the good stuff being on film at 24fps with all the motion blur and artifacts that come along with it. I think we'll be that way till we die, but I bet our kids will love listening to stuff on class-d amps and enjoy 120hz video and wonder how we ever got by on the junk we had when we were their age...

LOL ... Now you're cooking with oil bud ! You very well may be right.

I am just so very close to liking the Ice amps ... If I could only get the slightest bit more upper freq air, and a little more richness in the vocal region, I would just so be there ! Maybe some quality parts modding ?