Harley Speaker Build

[davepellegrene]

After much thought put into building my brother in law a set of speakers, for his wife to give him, for Christmas. I thank everyone, that gave me ideas, from my " What to build with a $500 Budget" thread.
I have decided not to spend the money on a design, that I am not sure he will want, without having his input. So, I decided to use the buy out speakers I have and tweeters I got from InDIYana this year. I think I will save the wave guide build for myself at a latter date.

I,m going to build him a vented three way approximately 8" wide by 9" deep by 20" tall. Using the Peerless 835004 as the woofer, tuned around 50Hz, in a 9L box, the Peerless TC08SD69-08 as the mid, sealed in about 4L's, and the Vifa AC25TG05-04 for the tweeter. I am off setting the baffle instead accounting for it in the crossover. Probably set the tweeter behind the baffle to set it back the 3/4" need behind the mid, then round over the baffle around the tweeter.

Here's what I have is PCD so far. I seem to be having trouble keeping the impedance up on the woofer. The larger I make the cap to lower the crossover point the lower the impedance goes. Can't figure out a way around it. The Impedance phase, if that's what it's called, isn't all that great either. Not sure what's going on with the tuning either. Can't seem to get rid of the hump.



Since My brother in law is basically a biker and everything he owns is either Harley or has it written on it I figured it would only be fitting to build using a Harley theme. Here's what I have so far on the box design. I am going to round the corners going back on the top edges of the woofer box. More difficult to change in Google Sketch then to just do it.
The only other thing I would like to do is to incorporate black and orange into the design some how. Maybe a Harley emblem. I still have the port to do. May do something cool with it or maybe just do a slot vent out the front.




Thoughts?
Dave

[diy speaker guy]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

You asked for opinions, so I'll give mine. I hope it doesn't come off as disrespectful but from what I remember from the other thread I think you are moving in the wrong direction.

I have decided not to spend the money on a design, that I am not sure he will want, without having his input.

What exactly does this mean? Are you asking him for his input now (which would ruin the surprise) or not asking his opinion but just not willing to spend $$$ on something he might not like? Personally I think he might like whatever you end up making a lot better if he has some input.

FWIW I don't like the look of the top box at all, but a Harley lover will probably love it, so ymmv. Still, it's unique and I'd get his opinion before going ahead. The potential problem I see is that the pieces are modular and a non audiophile will probably NOT keep them together, he will probably position the bottom box somewhere else in the room for WAF and other reasons as though it were a subwoofer, which won't work with this design. IIRC you said these have to go on a shelf, do you think it's likely he will stack them on the shelf properly?

Next, your model shows a 10 db boost in the bass. If he has a room mode at 50 hz or so and the program material highlights it, it's probably going to sound like he's inside a church bell while it's being struck.

Finally, if he's a Harley man and likes to party loud, these might not be loud enough to be his party speakers.

I'm really sorry this all sounds so negative but I thought the previous Ewave idea was great and this is meant to give you stuff to think about, not to slam the design.

BTW, your sketchup work is very advanced, compared to mine at least.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

I say skip the mid, but you can keep that tweeter. The Vifa Logic AC25 is actually pretty well-suited to playing good n' loud.

Maybe just an MTM? Again, consider the Dayton DC160; they'll rock hard and get good and low in a small cabinet.

But it sure looks cool, and I know you have the skills to pull something slick-looking like that off.

[Chris Roemer]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

After much thought put into building my brother in law a set of speakers, for his wife to give him, for Christmas. I thank everyone, that gave me ideas, from my " What to build with a $500 Budget" thread.
I have decided not to spend the money on a design, that I am not sure he will want, without having his input. So, I decided to use the buy out speakers I have and tweeters I got from InDIYana this year. I think I will save the wave guide build for myself at a latter date.

I,m going to build him a vented three way approximately 8" wide by 9" deep by 20" tall. Using the Peerless 835004 as the woofer, tuned around 50Hz, in a 9L box, the Peerless TC08SD69-08 as the mid, sealed in about 4L's, and the Vifa AC25TG05-04 for the tweeter. I am off setting the baffle instead accounting for it in the crossover. Probably set the tweeter behind the baffle to set it back the 3/4" need behind the mid, then round over the baffle around the tweeter.

Here's what I have is PCD so far. I seem to be having trouble keeping the impedance up on the woofer. The larger I make the cap to lower the crossover point the lower the impedance goes. Can't figure out a way around it. The Impedance phase, if that's what it's called, isn't all that great either. Not sure what's going on with the tuning either. Can't seem to get rid of the hump.



Since My brother in law is basically a biker and everything he owns is either Harley or has it written on it I figured it would only be fitting to build using a Harley theme. Here's what I have so far on the box design. I am going to round the corners going back on the top edges of the woofer box. More difficult to change in Google Sketch then to just do it.
The only other thing I would like to do is to incorporate black and orange into the design some how. Maybe a Harley emblem. I still have the port to do. May do something cool with it or maybe just do a slot vent out the front.




Thoughts?
Dave

What, no chrome?

Why not just make it a 2-way? It would be simpler, cheaper, and probably solve your impedance issues.

WinISD gives me an F3 around 70 w/out the hump you show. I'm using Qts=0.26, Vas=1.38cf, Fs=38. Are those correct?

Chris

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

You asked for opinions, so I'll give mine. I hope it doesn't come off as disrespectful but from what I remember from the other thread I think you are moving in the wrong direction.



What exactly does this mean? Are you asking him for his input now (which would ruin the surprise) or not asking his opinion but just not willing to spend $$$ on something he might not like? Personally I think he might like whatever you end up making a lot better if he has some input.

FWIW I don't like the look of the top box at all, but a Harley lover will probably love it, so ymmv. Still, it's unique and I'd get his opinion before going ahead. The potential problem I see is that the pieces are modular and a non audiophile will probably NOT keep them together, he will probably position the bottom box somewhere else in the room for WAF and other reasons as though it were a subwoofer, which won't work with this design. IIRC you said these have to go on a shelf, do you think it's likely he will stack them on the shelf properly?

Next, your model shows a 10 db boost in the bass. If he has a room mode at 50 hz or so and the program material highlights it, it's probably going to sound like he's inside a church bell while it's being struck.

Finally, if he's a Harley man and likes to party loud, these might not be loud enough to be his party speakers.

I'm really sorry this all sounds so negative but I thought the previous Ewave idea was great and this is meant to give you stuff to think about, not to slam the design.

BTW, your sketchup work is very advanced, compared to mine at least.

I appreciate you taking the time to post your opinion. Being a noob is why I post ahead of starting any project.

It is suppose to be a surprise so I don't feel comfortable spending $500 plus unless I really know what the speakers will be used for. His wife has no clue and is leaving it up to me. Also from what I have gathered $500 is just getting into the low end of an E wave, so that concerns me. If these speakers will be used in his bar area the room is pretty small.
I probably can build the new set up for about a $100, so if he really wants something nicer we can work on that later. These could be used about anywhere.
I am concerned about the hump in the base but couldn't get it out in WinISD Pro. Not sure why yet.

Thanks Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

I say skip the mid, but you can keep that tweeter. The Vifa Logic AC25 is actually pretty well-suited to playing good n' loud.

Maybe just an MTM? Again, consider the Dayton DC160; they'll rock hard and get good and low in a small cabinet.

But it sure looks cool, and I know you have the skills to pull something slick-looking like that off.

Thanks Paul, I will keep this in mind. I think the cabinet would look better with out the mid as well.

[benchtester]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

This is just a side note. Are you planning on wood or aluminum? Could you use real engine parts? I don't know if a cylinder would have enough volume. I would think capping a wooden box with the cylinder head would be do-able. (Spoken by someone clueless about motorcycle engines).

Alternately do a Bose-buster built into a headlight cowling.:D May the woofer below it in a gas tank.

Shouldn't the port tube be external with maybe a header going into the box?

You might interview Froste (whimsical specialist) and Johnastockman (cycle knowledge).

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

What, no chrome?

Why not just make it a 2-way? It would be simpler, cheaper, and probably solve your impedance issues.

WinISD gives me an F3 around 70 w/out the hump you show. I'm using Qts=0.26, Vas=1.38cf, Fs=38. Are those correct?

Chris

If I knew how to do them in chrome I would. Thats two for a two way. For some reason I couldn't get WinIsd Pro to save a new driver. Not sure what was going on there. So I used the one that was already in there. My TS Parameters were different. I got Re 3.667 Fs 45.09 Qts .3030 Qes .3244 Qms 4.622 Le 4545. No break in on the driver either.

Dave

[diy speaker guy]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

I am concerned about the hump in the base but couldn't get it out in WinISD Pro. Not sure why yet.

Thanks Dave

If you continue to have problems let us know and we help with WinISD. Have you double checked the parameters, and entered them in the specified order? Alternately you could try Unibox if you have it, it's better than WinISD anyway. Or better yet, use Bagby's tools. You can do a quick box model right in Response Modeller while you are preparing your frd and zma files.

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

This is just a side note. Are you planning on wood or aluminum? Could you use real engine parts? I don't know if a cylinder would have enough volume. I would think capping a wooden box with the cylinder head would be do-able. (Spoken by someone clueless about motorcycle engines).

Alternately do a Bose-buster built into a headlight cowling.:D May the woofer below it in a gas tank.

Shouldn't the port tube be external with maybe a header going into the box?

You might interview Froste (whimsical specialist) and Johnastockman (cycle knowledge).

Those have all crossed my mind.LOL I was thinking external ports but I keep reeling myself in. You should see my first attempt. Way to many angles.I have to remember simple, cheap and quick I don't have a lot of time.
Probably wood just cause that,s what I know.

Dave

[benchtester]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

Those have all crossed my mind.LOL I was thinking external ports but I keep reeling myself in. You should see my first attempt. Way to many angles.I have to remember simple, cheap and quick I don't have a lot of time.
Probably wood just cause that,s what I know.

Dave

yeah I know.... but one last shot before reality sets in:

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

If you continue to have problems let us know and we help with WinISD. Have you double checked the parameters, and entered them in the specified order? Alternately you could try Unibox if you have it, it's better than WinISD anyway. Or better yet, use Bagby's tools. You can do a quick box model right in Response Modeller while you are preparing your frd and zma files.

Not sure why WinSID wouldn't save the driver. I had this problem before. I think probably to many parameters. So I when to Woofer Box and Circuit designer put the parameters in it. Stared at it for a few minutes and thought I'm gonna need way more time to figure this out. I then just used Response Modeler to get to PCD.

I may just go to the two way as suggested and swap out the woofer.

I just found out my wife played a hand in this "surprise" and she was thinking something like the Continuums. Still not sure I want to invest the money. Let alone putting Jeff on the spot asking to build another set.
Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

yeah I know.... but one last shot before reality sets in:

That,s Funny! You are definitely on the same wave length I am. I was looking at that same pic envisioning two mids in the cylinders with a tweeter just above in the middle. Thats when I started to think KEEP IT SIMPLE!
I also came to the conclusion the engine was the only thing I could get to look like a speaker.
Dave

[davepellegrene]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

I should also mention these will be one piece so they don't get separated. Also doing a two way I could make them a bit smaller as well. Maybe being small he won't expect a lot and push them to hard. :rolleyes:

Dave

[diy speaker guy]

Re: Harley Speaker Build

I then just used Response Modeler to get to PCD.

Dave

Yeah, you can do everything, including the box model right in Response Modeler. Do you have better results now or do you need some help with this? Response Modeler has full instructions on a separate tab of the same spreadsheet but if you need more help feel free to ask.