What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

[lunchmoney]

Here's the speaker I'm talking about:

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Black%20Box.html

If I wanted to make them as floor standing towers, with a larger woofer enclosure volume, would it be easy to figure out? Major changes to the crossover?

I could just build them as is, but I remember some comments a while back to the effect of "why not just make them bigger?"

Thanks

EDIT:

Let me back up and explain how I got to this:

I've got a pair of the 10" RS Woofers (like those in the Black Box), and I'm itching to build a pair of big(ish) 3-ways.

The Black Box is the only 3-way I've seen that uses 1 per speaker (there is a gigantic 3-way TMWW on HT guide that uses two per, but that's just way too big)

Anyone know of other 3-ways out there that use them?

[diy speaker guy]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

IMO if it were done as larger towers it would be a dramatically better design. (I'm not a fan of that design at all - the compromises he chose make absolutely no sense to me.)

Yes, the crossover would need to be changed, just off the top of my head, the larger towers would not require the passive assist. And the baffle dimensions would obviously be different, which may require other xo tweaks as well.

Might be best to start from scratch.

[critofur]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

Well, I certainly wouldn't worry about giving [the RS270] it too much volume, particularly if you switched to ported - you'll be able to take measurements after you build it? Plenty of us are willing to help with crossovers, if there are good measurements.

I see no need to "start from scratch" if you like the design and basically just want tower versions. Also, a high pass/"passive assist" is generally a good idea but not implemented as a cost comprimise (or simply because the designer isn't aware of the benefits).

[lunchmoney]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

See my "Edit" above in the original post.

[MSaturn]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

Indeed, making them bigger will work just fine. No need for all that capacitance, either.

[lunchmoney]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

Indeed, making them bigger will work just fine. No need for all that capacitance, either.

Now if only I had any clue how to modify the x-overs.

[MSaturn]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

A change in the bass response will indeed require modification of the mid/woofer XO. Simulations should be adequate, as all drivers used have been extensively tested.

Trace them and pop them into PCD, and then go to town. Be interesting to see how his XOs match up to available measurements and simulation.

[Face]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

A change in the bass response will indeed require modification of the mid/woofer XO. Simulations should be adequate, as all drivers used have been extensively tested.

Which may also lead to modification to the M/T XO if there is a change to overall system efficiency.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

Which may also lead to modification to the M/T XO if there is a change to overall system efficiency.

Start with something like the Dreydel, and then use the RS270 as a bass bin, with simple capacitive highpass on the TM.

Tony's design relies heavily on the boost design to arrive at the correct voicing. Changing the woofer alignment will certainly change the midbass performance. And the fix is likely a bit more complex than simply changing the padding on the mid and tweet.

[greywarden]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

I'd like to build those, but they have a $1200 BoM and that's with 100v NPE's for the (4) 160uF caps.

[ckmoore]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

I'd like to build those, but they have a $1200 BoM and that's with 100v NPE's for the (4) 160uF caps.

I really like how he left the compartment open in the back to see the crossover

[diy speaker guy]

Re: What if Tony Gee's "Black Box" were done as larger towers?

I really like how he left the compartment open in the back to see the crossover

This is actually the biggest reason I don't like this design. It's clearly a matter of preference (some people like it and some don't) but personally I can't imagine why he would waste a full 1/3 of the available box volume and then use capacitance to bring the response back in line. This makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I'd like to build those, but they have a $1200 BoM and that's with 100v NPE's for the (4) 160uF caps.

And that's the second reason I don't like the design. You could do a whole lot better for less than half that price using the same drivers (IMO of course). But I suppose boutique parts are a matter of preference just like frivolous contouring filters.

Tony is clearly a bright guy and he does good and competent work but our design philosophies are on opposite ends of the spectrum.