So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

[billschu]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

I'd like to chime in and state how much I like the midrange of those speakers. I've heard them both as well as the Nao Mini. John's got crossovers down for sure.

Yes, I konw Deward. I really wish you had the opportunity to hear the NaO II or the Note. I think you might very surprised, particualrly if you believe the midrange is the most important.

[Theresa]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

There was the "floating point source" that was comprised of plasma produced from gas used for welding. The gas was "modulated" so that the plasma ball grew and shrank in response to a signal. They say that you floated to the angels while the thing either explodes or poisons you, (I just made that up, I think it was the vicodan for the holes in my mouth).
Other than those risks I am beginning to think about open baffles for my Eton mid-woofers. What to do about the tweeter is another matter. Is a baffle 10" wide big enough with active high pass crossover at 100Hz protecting the mid-bass from lows? I loved a friends Magnepans back in '91.
Etons are not a robust driver nor is the magnetic system modern. I just wonder if they would tear themselves to pieces without any dampening.

[dantheman]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

Yep - They came out fired up and my poor J-E-T-S could never catch up.

But I blame the announcers!
They jinxed it at the end of the first half by saying "The jets just need to get out of this half without giving up any more points" ; and then 2 seconds later the fumble was returned for a TD. Can't win playing like that!

Yea, the Jets played a pretty bad first half. The second half, we just caught a few breaks to keep the lead. The last drive was our only real one.

Thanks Deward for the good post. That's what I was getting at.

Dan

[Deward Hastings]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

How do the Orion and NaO designs compare to the GR open baffle speakers?

Break out the popcorn, this could be a long one . . . :eek:

I've never heard a GR loudspeaker, so I'm going to sit it out . . . :D

[Saurav]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

How do the Orion and NaO designs compare to the GR open baffle speakers?

I heard the GR Research OB speakers and the Orion at this last RMAF (as well as your excellent speakers), but I'd have a hard time answering that question. They are two completely different creatures, and they were playing completely different kinds of music. Pink Floyd's Wall on one, orchestral / classical music on the other. So I could say that one was refined and nuanced while the other was punchy and dynamic, one was good for rock while the other was better for classical... but honestly, I can't say how much of my impression is from the speaker, and how much from the music they were playing. If I'd heard some rock on the Orion or some classical on Danny's speakers, I'd be in a better position to make a meaningful comparison.

One thing that was interesting about the Linkwitz Lab room - there were no treatments, not even rugs thrown over the framed art. And the speakers were just sitting in the back of the room. I don't think they were any further out than any other speaker at the show. But the soundstage width and depth was pretty incredible. Again, how much was the speaker, and how much the recording - can't say. But I can say that these speakers can throw a very good soundstage with the right material.

the enormous amount of room response

Can you describe this in more detail? You said you heard a lot of room interference, I'm curious to know what that sounds like, exactly. How does that manifest itself? Did you hear the sound change as you moved around the room? Was this an effect you could hear just sitting in one spot?

[rickcraig]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

How do the Orion and NaO designs compare to the GR open baffle speakers?

[johnk...]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

We agree, you know, far more than we disagree . . . we just don't get into arguments over the things we agree about . . . ;)

Yes, I konw Deward. I really wish you had the opportunity to hear the NaO II or the Note. I think you might very surprised, particualrly if you believe the midrange is the most important.

[spasticteapot]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

Doesn't really sound much like a NaO either. And if it isn't a NaO, it not a NaO, it's something else.

Same baffle designs, same mid and tweeter, same crossover points. The FR was razor-flat, too.

While I suspect the proper NaOs are better speakers, I think it's reasonable to state that the enormous amount of room response is going to be hard to deal with without either moving the speakers further from the walls (I suspect 4' is an absolute minimum) or using a massive amount of room damping.

Linkwitz generally shows the Orions just stuffed wherever. I'm not entirely sure how well that's going to work.

[Deward Hastings]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

I'll drink to that.

We agree, you know, far more than we disagree . . . we just don't get into arguments over the things we agree about . . . ;)

[Deward Hastings]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

I haven't seen anything form you about how SBIR/dipole bass/midbass relate to our perception. These charts . . .

Mostly, I suppose, because I keep my dipoles far enough from the walls. Ray tracing and charts of numbers can make things appear more a "problem" than they are in reality . . . we tend not to remember that at low frequency we're talking waveforms far more than rays, and that the integration times for identifying loudness and pitch are substantial. The reflection from the nearest adjacent corner probably has more effect than the nearest point on the front wall, and there's a broad range of delayed reflections between those two. With wall mounted speakers the diffraction/reflection null is easy to see, but for a speaker 5 feet from the wall and a measurement position 6-7 feet further than that you would probably find it difficult to identify any "front wall signature" in the room response curve or to hear it.

Floor bounce (and ceiling bounce), which is more an issue at higher frequencies and can influence perception of the 'direct" sound, is addressed in different ways in different designs . . . there is nothing special about dipoles in this regard, except perhaps that with the absense of the baffle step anomaly we may be more sensitive to other direct/power response deviations, and entering an area where performance and perception may be as much influenced by the room as the loudspeaker, and where a poor and untreated room can spoil the best loudspeaker design.

[johnk...]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

Designing and building a successfull full range dipole loudspeaker involves just a bit more than choosing a baffle width . . .
. .

I'll drink to that.

[johnk...]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

How do you get from

to

The speaker described in the first quote doesn't sound very much like ORION . . . you might as well say "I test-drove a used Lada, and it invalidated the Lexus reviews I've read" . . .

Doesn't really sound much like a NaO either. And if it isn't a NaO, it not a NaO, it's something else.

[jeff_free69]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

How 'bout them Steelers!

Yep - They came out fired up and my poor J-E-T-S could never catch up.

But I blame the announcers!
They jinxed it at the end of the first half by saying "The jets just need to get out of this half without giving up any more points" ; and then 2 seconds later the fumble was returned for a TD. Can't win playing like that!

[dantheman]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

Deward, I was just talking about bass and midbass--not the full monte. I see recent discussion about modal excitation. You have implied some thought about it, but I haven't seen anything form you about how SBIR/dipole bass/midbass relate to our perception. These charts might get your "thoughtful post" juices flowing if you should choose:




more here: http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/2010/...onditions.html

Oh, when you quote me--I know I mention this a lot w/you--please try not to take it out of context or change its meaning.

Thanks,

Dan

How 'bout them Steelers!

[Deward Hastings]

Re: So - why DON'T people go with open baffle?

I might be generalizing here, but the baffle widths aren't that different.

Designing and building a successfull full range dipole loudspeaker involves just a bit more than choosing a baffle width . . .

Also, the 2-way configuration is liable to produce MORE lobing, not less.

That generalization is, in general, not correct . . .