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Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

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  • #31
    Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

    Originally posted by Paul Carmody View Post
    Can you get away with "minimum tension" on the screws, or is the driver loose?"
    I thought about that too! The driver is too loose at that point, and the magnet is really heavy.

    Any other ideas? Please?

    Later,
    Wolf
    "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
    "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
    "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
    "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

    *InDIYana event website*

    Photobucket pages:
    https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

    My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

      Good morning,

      I have seen some very thin plastic (nylon?) washers which may be useful. Put a pair of them under each screw head with a dab of lubricant between them. Give the screw a way to tighten up without transferring the torsion onto the surround.
      Mongo only pawn in game of life
      ____
      Ed

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

        Originally posted by edlafontaine View Post
        Good morning,

        I have seen some very thin plastic (nylon?) washers which may be useful. Put a pair of them under each screw head with a dab of lubricant between them. Give the screw a way to tighten up without transferring the torsion onto the surround.
        That's the second way I did it, and it still grabbed it. I just didn't use any slip.

        I think the main problem is that there is a lip of the surround, and the screw has to bite to the frame which is on a different/lower level than the surround. There isn't really any way to place a shim in there to work like I think it should.



        Thanks, Ed; any more!?
        Later,
        Wolf
        "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
        "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
        "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
        "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

        *InDIYana event website*

        Photobucket pages:
        https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

        My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
        http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Ideas??

          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
          I know this was discussed prior a couple weeks back, but this has a frame lip, and a surround that protrudes into the mounting holes.

          I installed them both with and without nylon washers to try and NOT pull the surround when solidly mounted- To no avail.

          I went into the LR after getting up and around today, and the small peaks where it tugged yesterday had further opened up to make an air-leak. I didn't even run them today. I immediately lightened the screw tension, and the adhesive seems to have accepted the surround back to its original position.

          Now- what to do about it?

          I've tried with and without washers on the screws, and I've tried flush-heads. I even tried a little adhesive to keep the surround position, but that didn't work.

          My only other thought is to somehow make a 'face-gasket' for it out of 1/4" hardboard, and use speaker glue to secure it tightly. This way, the screws will clamp the surround in place, and no tugs will happen.

          Any other thoughts?

          Later,
          Wolf
          I'm just a noob lurker who rarely posts as I still have a lot to learn so forgive me if this is less than helpful, but I think your face gasket is the best solution. My only thought is to perhaps consider using aluminum rather than hardboard. The aluminum's rigidity would distribute the clamping force more evenly and maybe complement the look of the cone.

          You could cut some fender washers to a shape that would rest against the frame lip so they couldn't turn while tensioning the screws. Kinda like the triangle shaped washers you see on after market hot rod valve covers. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-washers/=d0n5g2

          That's a hard situation, the more I think about it there really isn't an ideal way to address it. I wish you luck.
          Last edited by Jon Richard; 07-03-2011, 02:28 PM. Reason: added link
          I hung one out on the porch and it zaps any bugs, solicitors, or minorities within a 10' radius! WOW! Thanks Wattgate 381

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Ideas??

            Originally posted by Jon Richard View Post
            I'm just a noob lurker who rarely posts as I still have a lot to learn so forgive me if this is less than helpful, but I think your face gasket is the best solution. My only thought is to perhaps consider using aluminum rather than hardboard. The aluminum's rigidity would distribute the clamping force more evenly and maybe complement the look of the cone.

            You could cut some fender washers to a shape that would rest against the frame lip so they couldn't turn while tensioning the screws. Kinda like the triangle shaped washers you see on after market hot rod valve covers. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-washers/=d0n5g2

            That's a hard situation, the more I think about it there really isn't an ideal way to address it. I wish you luck.
            The square-beveled washer could be something I could try. That could lock against the frame and not turn.

            The issue with the Aluminum, is that I would have to have it cut, and I need these done before next weekend- MWAF. I have hardboard on hand, and can cut that myself.

            Thanks, Jon- welcome aboard!
            Any other ideas?
            Wolf
            "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
            "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
            "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
            "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

            *InDIYana event website*

            Photobucket pages:
            https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

            My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

              I thought working the aluminum would take up to much time unless you had a machinist friend that owed you a favor. I believe the cut/ beveled washers are your best bet to get you through next weekend, it would be faster than the hardboard rings so you could move forward.

              It is possible to machine an anchor that would not touch the surround and transfer all the clamping force directly to the frame, but now that this has occured I'm left wondering if a "clamping ring" is now a necessity.

              If your dissatisfied with the washers as a permanent fix I could help prototype some anchors if you provide measurements. It would take time so I'm talking after you get back of course.

              I don't get why the manufacturer didn't take this into account. I've seen this on other drivers before. When engineers die they should come back as mechanics and installers
              I hung one out on the porch and it zaps any bugs, solicitors, or minorities within a 10' radius! WOW! Thanks Wattgate 381

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

                Thanks for the further notes...

                I just got off the phone with Jeff B, and he said to slit the surround radially and it will spread out upon mounting. I'll give that a shot first....

                ...then I'll go to Ace to see about some squarewashers if it doesn't work out.

                I may contact you after the event if I don't think I like the more recent aesthetics.

                Thanks a lot everyone!!
                Later,
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Remedied??

                  Well- I tried the radial cuts, and that didn't work.

                  I tried the square nuts as washers, and whil it didn't pull, it applied a lot of pressure and had equal 'hills' to either side of the mounting when tight.

                  I also got some 'finishing washers' after seeing them on the original Aviatrix from Wayne/Curt. I think these will do the job. The washer doesn't get turned as it's so light and smooth, and it clamps a wider area than the other methods. I'll know tomorrow if the surround starts to release again, but no hills present with just enough tension to keep it securely mounted.

                  Crossing the fingers!!

                  Thanks everyone!
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

                    It's hard to tell from the pic, but it looks possible to cut a washer in half having a 60/ 40 split. Use the larger half with a notch in the back toward the frame lip like before to prevent it from turning but if there is enough meat there even if the washer is only partialy under the screw head it should only apply pressure to the frame.

                    The idea is to have something under the screw but only contacting the area between the edge of the surround and the lip. Kinda like a shim. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-shims/=d0q4e0
                    I hung one out on the porch and it zaps any bugs, solicitors, or minorities within a 10' radius! WOW! Thanks Wattgate 381

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Ideas??

                      Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                      Any other thoughts?
                      Wolf
                      Silicone the driver to a backer board (or to the baffle). Then mount the backer board from the rear of the baffle. (Or cut the silicone if you glue directly to the baffle)

                      I had a pair SpeakerLab 30's with the woofers silicone glued to the baffle. They lasted 15 years. It took 10 minutes with an exacto knife to remove them.
                      Lou's Speaker Site [speakers.lonesaguaro.com]
                      "Different" is objective, "better" is subjective. Taste is not a provable fact.
                      Where are you John Galt? I may not be worthy, but I'm ready.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

                        Wolf, Let me know if you need a nice aluminum ring machined.

                        OR, I just had a brain storm... Is it possible to use a threw hole instead of a threaded hole, and use a machine thread screw with a nut tightened from behind.
                        That way all the turning tension is placed against the back of the baffle, holding the driver in place, as opposed to the screw holding the turning tension against the driver frame/surround. maybe?
                        THOMAS BROWN aka "STINKY"

                        I've got an idea - an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about. - Peter Griffin

                        I DON'T CARE WHAT KIND OF MUSIC YOU LISTEN TO, OR LIKE.
                        SHUT UP, PUT DOWN THE WALLS OF PRETENSION FOR 1 SECOND AND JUST LISTEN TO THE SONGS
                        - SCOTT IAN

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Remedied??

                          Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                          Well- I tried the radial cuts, and that didn't work.

                          I tried the square nuts as washers, and whil it didn't pull, it applied a lot of pressure and had equal 'hills' to either side of the mounting when tight.

                          I also got some 'finishing washers' after seeing them on the original Aviatrix from Wayne/Curt. I think these will do the job. The washer doesn't get turned as it's so light and smooth, and it clamps a wider area than the other methods. I'll know tomorrow if the surround starts to release again, but no hills present with just enough tension to keep it securely mounted.

                          Crossing the fingers!!

                          Thanks everyone!
                          Wolf

                          Well, there's always something like this:
                          Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

                            Originally posted by Thomas Brown View Post
                            Wolf, Let me know if you need a nice aluminum ring machined.

                            OR, I just had a brain storm... Is it possible to use a threw hole instead of a threaded hole, and use a machine thread screw with a nut tightened from behind.
                            That way all the turning tension is placed against the back of the baffle, holding the driver in place, as opposed to the screw holding the turning tension against the driver frame/surround. maybe?
                            I was thinking about that too. That's the way the woofers in my Continuums are mounted.
                            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: ARGH!! Screws/surround issues.... Remedied??

                              Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                              Well, there's always something like this:
                              http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=260-340
                              I thought about those too, but the faceted baffle does not lend well to that solution.

                              The finishing washers are still holding well, without detrimental hills or unseals.
                              Later,
                              Wolf
                              "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                              "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                              "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                              "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                              *InDIYana event website*

                              Photobucket pages:
                              https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                              My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Face-Swap! Tweeters will get transplant...

                                It's about turning and even-pressure at the same time. The turn pulls it, and the pressure makes the 'hills'. A seemingly more-even/larger-radius pressure around the screw with less tension and no-turn is what is currently working.

                                Stinky- I may have to take you up on that! I think that would be slick.

                                I'm in a bit of limbo with onboard video right now, so I could be in/out for a week or so. My fan on the GPU died, and I am hoping the processor is still okay. I likely have to get an aftermarket 'cooler', and it's not a rare problem with the model I own...

                                So- holding steady for the moment, and these will go to MWAF, even if I'm cut down to one entry.

                                Later,
                                Wolf
                                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                                *InDIYana event website*

                                Photobucket pages:
                                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                                Comment

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