Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

[vodka_mann]

Hi Everyone,

I just bought a Dayton Audio SA1000 and I'm not all that impressed, I expect A LOT more out of a "1000 watt" amp. Maybe you guys can give me some tips on getting more out of it.

I'm an old car audio junkie and took one of my old 8 ohm 15s and hooked it up in my home and the SQ is pretty good - better than I had expected considering the Qtc is a ways away from .7. My big issue is output.

First, the 15 has an RMS power rating of 300 watts - considering the SA1000 is supposed to have an output of 500 watts at 8 ohms I should be able to push the woofer to its max long before the amp starts flaking.... Well, it happens to be the other way around.

At a gain of about 6 or 7 the amp starts to clip (the little happy blue light starts flickering red - at least that's what I'm assuming it means). The sub seems to be getting close to its limit but from my experience of having it in my car it could go further (just from visibly watching it's excursion and doing the best I can to compare output).

I have the SA1000 crossed over at about 50 hz - if I cross it over higher it seems to start clipping even earlier (doesn't sound to my preferences anyway), the subsonic filter is off (the way I like it), the sub is connected to the top binding posts, the bass boost is off and I'm not making use of the EQ.

Outside of the lack of output seems to be a fine product. Looks great in my cabinet, I like all of the different settings (though I can't tell any audible different in adjusting the phase), the binding posts are sweet, it's certainly heavy enough to be a 1K amp .

I'd be happy to hear any thoughts anyone might have on how to get more juice out of this unit.

[lunchmoney]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Not an expert, but I'm curious about how using a car sub might be causing issues. Aren't they designed to take cabin gain into account?

[kmibb]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Is the EQ or any of the other dials being used? That would consume more power.

[pypes]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

What sub is it that you are using?

What box is it in? Size? Tuning?

Do you have the specs on the sub? What is the Xmax? Just because it has a power handling of 300 watts doesn't mean 300 watts will drive it to xmax. Excursion is a factor of many things between frequency, watts, tuning of enclosure, and I'm sure some things I can't even think of. Also, you could have been driving it past Xmax in your car - making the comparison irrelevant.

And you can't, let me emphasize this - you can not - compare, by ear, the output of the sub in your car to the output of the sub in your home and expect them to be equal. You're comparing apples and oranges.

There are many things in the car environment that will allow you to get much louder. First and foremost, you are trying to energize an extremely small space compared to a room that, has openings to other rooms throughout the house making for a very large airspace to energize.

Now I'm not sure if the amp is putting out the power it claims, I've never used one of these and it's possible you have a faulty one.. but the observations you've made aren't sufficient to tell. We'll have an easier time figuring that out if you can provide answers to the first couple questions I posed.

[[email protected]]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

i have the old version and have it set to 4. it is powering a rs315hf ported. it will go much higher with a test tone but, i have to leave the room.:D
were you doing this free-air or in a box?

[justanie]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

I agree, I have one too, I use it to drive two 12" dayton rshf's. It clips really easily. The subs are wired in series for 8ohms. I have ran these subs with one channel my Bryston 4b rated at 250 @ 8 ohms with much better results. It's a shame i need the bryston for my mains.
Anyways, i'm now looking to pick up a used pro amp to drive my subs, the dayton can drive my single rs12" in the family room.

[CWH&R]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Same here, I am driving a 12rs Dayton sub ( 2 cu. ft sealed). I now drive the sub with a 300 watt NHT amp (more output, better sounding low end).The 1000 dayton amp strats clipping very easy.

[Face]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Everyone here is referring to the redesigned SA1000, correct?

[mzisserson]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

This is where that sill lil' overhead discussion comes in. All watts are not created equal!

[r-carpenter]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

I think guys that build amps could chime in.
Power supply too small for a job?

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

So far, everything here is totally subjective.

Has anyone bothered to find out, via meters and dummy load, whether the amp is really delivering its full output? Using a woofer and eyes and ears to determine that is pointless.

I know the previous version had some "issues."

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Interesting. I find it amazing that people like music and stuff loud enough to clip 100 watts, much less an order of magnitude higher.

FWIW, across most of the bandwidth of a typical subwoofer, impedance is quite high and there won't be the amps rated power being delivered. I think?

This might lead to clipping. Subwoofers are hungry animals.

[mzisserson]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

So far, everything here is totally subjective.

Has anyone bothered to find out, via meters and dummy load, whether the amp is really delivering its full output? Using a woofer and eyes and ears to determine that is pointless.

I know the previous version had some "issues."

Pete, you know as well as I that a dummy load means very little compared to the complex reactive load of a speaker coil. Add that too back EMF (car woofers usually do not have sorting rings, etc) and you can have one heck of a loard regardless of impedance as phase gets weird and the amp has to deal with dropping the EMF off in a safe place.

Subwoofers are in a power usage catagory all of their own. They are difficult to drive, it is no secret, and this is where the DESIGN concideration of the amp load means a great deal in speaker building, even if it is a box with one woofer in it.

On topic: The amp is a sub amp. It should be able, or be designed to take such loads. I know my QSC 300W amps have triple the apparent drive of an SA240. Not al watts are created equal.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Pete, you know as well as I that a dummy load means very little compared to the complex reactive load of a speaker coil. Add that too back EMF (car woofers usually do not have sorting rings, etc) and you can have one heck of a loard regardless of impedance as phase gets weird and the amp has to deal with dropping the EMF off in a safe place.

Subwoofers are in a power usage catagory all of their own. They are difficult to drive, it is no secret, and this is where the DESIGN concideration of the amp load means a great deal in speaker building, even if it is a box with one woofer in it.

On topic: The amp is a sub amp. It should be able, or be designed to take such loads. I know my QSC 300W amps have triple the apparent drive of an SA240. Not al watts are created equal.

The point is, those amps are rated into 8 or 4 Ohm, not some reactive impedance. If they do indeed provide 1000W into 4 Ohm, then there's nothing wrong with them.

And while the resonance area of the woofer is indeed much higher than its rated impedance, that area is a low stress region for the amp, requiring little current from the amp. You WON'T be getting 1000W in the resonance region, but you WILL still be getting the full voltage swing. If at resonance the impedance of your 4 Ohm woofer reaches 20 Ohm, the most power you can hope to deliver to the woofer, regardless of the amp, is 200W, beyond which the output is clipping due to the voltage swing limit determined by the supply rails.

[philiparcario]

Re: Dayton SA1000 - Not Impressed - Just Me?

Am I missing something or is the op's sub have multiple binding posts? he mentions his sub is attached to the top binding posts. That means a bottom set or even thre or four sets of binding posts. So if he is wired a low load to his sub clipping would be very normal.

I know the amp old design was 580 watts or so and no one ever had prolonged 1000 watt output at 4 ohms.


That said vodka_mann you will be deafened by playing that loud. Play lower and use multiple subs with more amps. HT is about peak noise not constant noise. My HT has 3 subs plays loud enough to make any earthquake scene feel real. Then quiet for when the people whisper.

( MY apologies and prayers for Japan and New Zealand victims of their recent earthquakes)