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  • Re: Crossovers ready to rock

    Originally posted by jcandy View Post
    LOL. You used wire nuts!

    On a more serious note, you should rotate the small inductor 90 degrees to reduce the flux coupling:

    http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/coils.htm

    How do the DCR of the original and present large inductors differ?
    Wire nuts -- Oh boy....are the scientists firing up the flame throwers right now?

    I thought I was Ok with the inductors -- thanks for that reference page.

    The original low pass inductor DCR is 0.25 -- the new one is 0.24. Did I screw that up too?
    Bryan K.

    Midwest Audio Club

    Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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    • Re: Crossovers ready to rock

      Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
      Wire nuts -- Oh boy....are the scientists firing up the flame throwers right now?
      Maybe my comment needs this extra clarification: holy crap you do neat work! Impressive.

      Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
      I thought I was Ok with the inductors -- thanks for that reference page.
      I think since the small inductor is so small you're fine. The intuitive way to minimize inductor coupling is to imagine a beam of magnetic flux shooting through the inductor hole, and then never let beams intersect.

      Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
      The original low pass inductor DCR is 0.25 -- the new one is 0.24. Did I screw that up too?
      Nope. Looks good. My 2 cents, however, is that (1) one inductor is exactly the same as another if the DCR is the same, (2) caps don't require break-in. The only thing that is subject to any sort of break-in is driver suspension, and that is very fast.
      Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often. -- Mark Twain

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      • Re: Crossovers ready to rock

        Originally posted by jcandy View Post
        Maybe my comment needs this extra clarification: holy crap you do neat work! Impressive.

        I think since the small inductor is so small you're fine. The intuitive way to minimize inductor coupling is to imagine a beam of magnetic flux shooting through the inductor hole, and then never let beams intersect.

        Nope. Looks good. My 2 cents, however, is that (1) one inductor is exactly the same as another if the DCR is the same, (2) caps don't require break-in. The only thing that is subject to any sort of break-in is driver suspension, and that is very fast.
        Thank you - definitely learning something new every day. I'm good at following instructions but I'm revealing how easily I fall apart on my own here. I'm going to rotate the shunt inductor just for good order's sake.

        On inductors though, how about distortion? The large OEM inductor is a steel core. I'll go out on a limb and try to answer my own question -- The distortion difference is not audible ??

        Stay tuned on the cap break-in debate. If you read back in this thread then you know that's the whole purpose of my silly posting.

        Appreciate your feedback.
        Bryan K.

        Midwest Audio Club

        Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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        • Re: Crossovers ready to rock

          Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
          On inductors though, how about distortion? The large OEM inductor is a steel core. I'll go out on a limb and try to answer my own question -- The distortion difference is not audible ??
          It depends on the quality of the original inductor. There is no way you'll saturate a model SL inductor like this:

          http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/SuperQCoils

          but I don't know much about the stock inductor, so I can't say for sure.
          Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often. -- Mark Twain

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          • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

            Originally posted by jbruner View Post
            Actually, if you turn it up enough, you can hear the music too.

            Now, see if you can pick out which cap is louder.

            Which cap sounds better/quieter/less distorted?

            Does the cap's sound quality/distortion level as a transducer correlate with it's sound quality in a loudspeaker circuit?
            I can't believe I'm actually admitting this. I took a stethoscope and listened to each cap for a few minutes. While each cap did produce sound, the one with the clearest and loudest output was by far the Clarity Cap. Mind you, I had to crank the volume up towards the 3/4 mark while I did this, but yes -- no contest here -- the Clarity Cap sings -- literally.

            Does SIZE matter?? The Clarity cap is the largest of my batch that is on the cooker. --I need to try this with the Jantzen. Or do I?

            Bryan K.

            Midwest Audio Club

            Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

            Comment


            • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

              Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
              I can't believe I'm actually admitting this. I took a stethoscope and listened to each cap for a few minutes. While each cap did produce sound, the one with the clearest and loudest output was by far the Clarity Cap. Mind you, I had to crank the volume up towards the 3/4 mark while I did this, but yes -- no contest here -- the Clarity Cap sings -- literally.

              Does SIZE matter?? The Clarity cap is the largest of my batch that is on the cooker. --I need to try this with the Jantzen. Or do I?

              This result is sort of an irony, because ClarityCap has made a big deal about the negative consequences of mechanical resonance, which is ostensibly what you are measuring.

              http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/clar...ch_Summary.pdf
              Action speaks louder than words but not nearly as often. -- Mark Twain

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              • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                Originally posted by jcandy View Post
                This result is sort of an irony, because ClarityCap has made a big deal about the negative consequences of mechanical resonance, which is ostensibly what you are measuring.

                http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/clar...ch_Summary.pdf
                Well I won't be doing any Laser Vibrometer Measurements -- that's for sure.
                Bryan K.

                Midwest Audio Club

                Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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                • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                  Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
                  I live in a town home in downtown Chicago and the neighbors are not very forgiving of bass. The Vibrapods work....I'll leave it at that.
                  Does this mean they won't be participating in your listening tests?

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                  • Re: Crossovers ready to rock

                    Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
                    Oh boy....are the scientists firing up the flame throwers right now?
                    FWIW, I think you get a "A" so far in your efforts as a scientist.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                      I thought the wire nuts would be upsetting to the subjectivists, the cap click(needed to be added now) hearers and the likes.... Oh well no matter. I haven't been keeping up with this end of audio dogma for a while. Anyway I like your set up--there is no perfect and this isn't science. It is fun. It's very similar to what I did when making a PLLXO 3-4 yrs ago except I didn't need inductors. Those are very cheap to build and you may want to check them out as well.

                      Dan
                      "guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
                      http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
                      http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10

                      Comment


                      • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                        Originally posted by bkeane1259 View Post
                        Well I won't be doing any Laser Vibrometer Measurements -- that's for sure.
                        Here's a ClarityCap PX test done with a 100W 8 ohm dummy load and the power set to about 10V across it (approx. 12.5 watts) - nice and warm.
                        The measurement was done with pink noise signal and picked up with a small electret mic I use with my ATB-PC acoustical response measurement system to measure cabinet resonances. The mic was placed right up against the cap. The CC 50 uF cap was 2 inch dia. X 2 3/8 inch long. The red line was with the mic placed on one end next to the lead wire. The red line is with the mic placed midway along its length. The blue line is the result of placing the mic against one end of the cap near where the cap exits. Evidently, the 'singing' is louder there.
                        NOTE: It's interesting to see the spikes in the response starting at 60 hz and repeating in multiples. Theories anyone?

                        I found the larger caps tended to sing louder than the small ones. So, it may be a function of cap size rather than any other factor.
                        Also ran the same test with a Bennic 50 uF NPE and barely picked up any signal.

                        p.s. I used photobucket for the scanned pic. Thanks again for the photo posting help!

                        Last edited by carlspeak; 04-20-2011, 10:40 AM. Reason: Corrected text to agree with measurements.
                        Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.

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                        • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                          Originally posted by carlspeak View Post
                          The red line was with the mic placed on one end next to the lead wire. The blue line is with the mic placed midway along its length - obviously louder there.
                          Not to be nitpicky, but the graph is labeled the other way -- red along the length of the cap and blue at the lead wire.

                          In my stethoscope measurements I definitely noticed more noise coming from around the center of the cap - between the lead wires.
                          Bryan K.

                          Midwest Audio Club

                          Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

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                          • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                            CAPS OFF THE COOKER TODAY

                            No chance of testing the caps over this last weekend, so I let em bake a bit longer. I took the caps off the rig this afternoon, so that equates to 193 hours of cooking time. I labeled them to easily distinguish from their uncooked brethren.


                            Bryan K.

                            Midwest Audio Club

                            Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

                            Comment


                            • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                              Originally posted by DoubleTap View Post
                              If any of you would use a Teflon V-Cap you'd believe in burn in ... of course you'd have to crack open your wallet with a crowbar to buy one, and scrub the barnacles out of your ears to hear the difference. And even if you did miraculously hear the difference with your ears of stone, you'd probably ignore the truth because of your hardened preconceptions of audio hogwash voodoo.

                              ... there, I feel better :D
                              .....And with what objective test can you back up yours (and others) claims that a component with no moving parts (apart from perhaps tubes) can "burn in?" At the end of the day you hear what you want to hear.
                              There are so many things that really affect the sound of a system, why get distracted by "burning" in caps?
                              Oh, and its not a matter of "fun" vs. science, science is fun to those that understand it.

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                              • Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

                                Spent some time terminating cables to hook the now crossover-less Monitor-40's to their new external crossovers.




                                Bryan K.

                                Midwest Audio Club

                                Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL

                                Comment

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