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Burning in hi-pass capacitors
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Bryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by bkeane1259 View PostFor this one we'll do it blind, switching back and forth between speakers via the balance control on the Marantz and with a mono signal. The listeners will not know which cap (brand) is loaded and which channel has the new or burned in cap.
That's really the only way you'll be able to isolate any differences between the caps.
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by bkeane1259 View PostSpent some time terminating cables to hook the now crossover-less Monitor-40's to their new external crossovers.
Just kidding.
But seriously, I do have a document, given to me by a speaker wire salesman way back in 1994, claiming that speaker wire has a "direction" to it. One is advised to connect the speakers to the amplifier and listen, then switch the speaker wire end for end and listen again. One way will sound better and that's the way it should be connected. This is caused by the way the wire is drawn at the factory. You want the signal to travel along the wire in the direction that it was drawn (or maybe it's the other way around) to get the best sound out of it.
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by Herman Trivilino View PostI thought you were aware of this issue! There are differences between drivers so that even if you had identical crossovers in both cabinets, listeners may be able to tell a difference. I though you were going to run a mono signal to a single speaker cabinet, and then switch between the the two caps.
That's really the only way you'll be able to isolate any differences between the caps.
Also, play both speakers in stereo, with one set of caps, then another, to distinguish any differences in spacial information(imaging, soundstage, etc...). But you may need different speaker placement than pictured above for a good evaluation."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.diy-ny.com/
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by Herman Trivilino View PostI thought you were aware of this issue! There are differences between drivers so that even if you had identical crossovers in both cabinets, listeners may be able to tell a difference. I though you were going to run a mono signal to a single speaker cabinet, and then switch between the the two caps.
That's really the only way you'll be able to isolate any differences between the caps.
I hope Wolf repeats the cap test at InDIYana 2011. I need to see his test rig. This crap requires a lot more planning than I ever anticipated. Definitely not noob territory :(Bryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by Herman Trivilino View PostAre these cables new, or have they been burned in? Some people claim that there's a difference.
I'm very aware of that whole debate, seriously. These cables are well broken in....been used for over a year. I just cut them down and reterminated them for the new set-up (external XO's).
I guess I can flip around the cables to see if I notice any difference in sound (directionality), but with only a couple feet in length, I hardly suspect there will be any difference. I will try it though or actually, I will get my son to flip them while I'm not looking (better)?? -- the banana plugs make that a snap.Bryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by Face View PostOr downmix both channels to mono so the same information is playing from both channels, see if you can distinguish any differences in tonality from either speaker.
Also, play both speakers in stereo, with one set of caps, then another, to distinguish any differences in spacial information(imaging, soundstage, etc...). But you may need different speaker placement than pictured above for a good evaluation.
However, once I cook the remaining caps and do the brand comparison, I will definitely want a stereo signal and a pair of speakers. I can definitely reposition the speakers for that test. :DBryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by Face View PostOr downmix both channels to mono so the same information is playing from both channels, see if you can distinguish any differences in tonality from either speaker.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you?
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by bkeane1259 View PostNot to be nitpicky, but the graph is labeled the other way -- red along the length of the cap and blue at the lead wire.
In my stethoscope measurements I definitely noticed more noise coming from around the center of the cap - between the lead wires.
I also measured a similar pattern with a pricy Hovland 4.7 uF 100V cap
These are very low level sounds eminating from these caps. The question is what, if any, impact this phenomenon has on a loudspeaker?. Furthermore, is this 'singing' phenomenon the same as what CC measured and addressed with their MR caps?Live in Southern N.E.? check out the CT Audio Society web site.
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by carlspeak View PostDon't know why my results (end vs center) would be the opposite of yours. Perhaps the cap's makup?
You'd be proud of me -- I ordered a calibrated Behringer ECM8000 from Cross-Spectrum Labs. :D
Since I'm really getting into this hobby, I realize the need to equip myself with some real tools. This should also come in very handy with car stereo installs as well. I might be twisting your ear a bit in the near future for some measuring and analysis pointers.Bryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
A better test signal might show a bigger difference even though that isn't a greatly compressed mp3, uncompressed files always sound better through my home systems. A better signal may expose a difference more easily if you are looking to go beyond fun...
How is the switching to be done and how many trials are their to be?
Dan"guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by dantheman View PostA better test signal might show a bigger difference even though that isn't a greatly compressed mp3, uncompressed files always sound better through my home systems. A better signal may expose a difference more easily if you are looking to go beyond fun...
How is the switching to be done and how many trials are their to be?
DanBryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
I do think a better file will make subtle differences more noticeable as well as a higher testing volume than what you would normally listen at.;)
BTW, you'll get no flames from me if that's what you are worried about. If you feel like you have already you are wrong(and this is not a flame either). I'll apologize if that's the case. I most certainly would try to help you if I just intended to knock you for trying. I tried to help Wolf's test as well though he seemed to think I was flaming him. Never did. I will admit I find the 'click' hearers pretty far out there--can't help it and I feel it's just responsible to say something to get the youngsters to think before they blow their wads on pricey caps.
Your son intends to pseudo randomize I suppose?
Do you think your results will be different than Wolf's? If so, why?
Thanks,
Dan"guitar polygamy is a satisfying and socially acceptable alternative lifestyle."~Tony Woolley
http://dtmblabber.blogspot.com/
http://soundcloud.com/dantheman-10
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Originally posted by dantheman View PostI do think a better file will make subtle differences more noticeable as well as a higher testing volume than what you would normally listen at.;)
Originally posted by dantheman View PostBTW, you'll get no flames from me if that's what you are worried about. If you feel like you have already you are wrong(and this is not a flame either). I'll apologize if that's the case.
Originally posted by dantheman View PostYour son intends to pseudo randomize I suppose?
Originally posted by dantheman View PostDo you think your results will be different than Wolf's? If so, why?Bryan K.
Midwest Audio Club
Speedster | | The Wildeman | Sean's NLA Towers | , COUGAR II and | Triton | Lithium | J-Boom | Trym MLTL | Docere MLTL
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Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors
Please don't use low res files."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
http://www.diy-ny.com/
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