Burning in hi-pass capacitors

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

No need to crack open the wallet; surplus Russian milspec teflon caps are all over eBay for peanuts, sometimes as little as $1/ea. Or less.

[Jonathan Anspach]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

If you want to become an oddiophile cut a small hole in your pants pocket. Walk to a toy store, buy enough marbles to fill said pocket. Walk home. When you've lost all your marbles you are an oddiophile.

That was hilarious.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Audio grade electrical outlets?!?!? I thought Monsters over sized and over priced cables were the biggest marketing ripoff in the audio industry.

Nah, you haven't come across the cable lifts yet. Or even better, Brilliant Pebbles.

[johnnyrichards]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Nah, you haven't come across the cable lifts yet. Or even better, Brilliant Pebbles.

Don't forget the clever little clock...

[PWR RYD]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Or those wooden diffuser sticks

[bkeane1259]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Visit post #2 at this thread

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2252&st=0&p=64047&hl=capacitor&fromsearch=1&#entry64047

Carl that is an excellent idea and awesome write-up, but here's why I would have to 100% disagree with the test's findings. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong. In the test, you're using what appears to be a PC USB mic which I'm assuming is running thru an integrated PC sound card. The signal simply cannot be captured and replicated (in high fidelity) that way, like it can be captured and processed by the human ear. Thus, with the info fed to Raven Pro being adversely affected by the microphone/sound card processing, I can surely see how the software would not pick-up important subtle nuances between the caps and lead one to conclude that the end result is similar across the different brands.

I think of it like this: You have a $10,000 set of speakers up against a $500 set of speakers, but your source for testing is an 8-track deck hooked up to a 20watt solid state receiver. The source signal is such a piece of crap, that both speaker sets are going to sound very similar if not exactly the same, leading one to believe that the $500 set is as good as the $10,000 set. The end result is only as good as the source.

I would be very interested in seeing your test repeated with the proper equipment, but that indeed would be cost-prohibitive. Thanks for sharing that write-up, it was very good. It has definitely helped me make up my mind for how I’m going to test my 4 sets of caps.

[Tony G]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Carl that is an excellent idea and awesome write-up, but here's why I would have to 100% disagree with the test's findings. Please correct me if you think I'm wrong. In the test, you're using what appears to be a PC USB mic which I'm assuming is running thru an integrated PC sound card. The signal simply cannot be captured and replicated (in high fidelity) that way, like it can be captured and processed by the human ear. Thus, with the info fed to Raven Pro being adversely affected by the microphone/sound card processing, I can surely see how the software would not pick-up important subtle nuances between the caps and lead one to conclude that the end result is similar across the different brands.

This is only a valid critique if the frequency dependent system noise, sampling resolution and bandwidth of the measurement system is in fact analytically inferior to those parameters of the human ear. (I was doing a bunch of similar optical measurements the other day, so I still have this on the brain).

[bkeane1259]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Wow! I spent $75 on all the parts I needed to build a pair of ntn's. That includes the $1.76 I spent on four NPE 4.0 µF caps.

I'm sorry, but I would never buy NPE's. Mass manufacturers use them because they are cheap and that is the only reason. They are garbage. I guarantee you would notice a huge difference right out of the ziplock bag by trading up to Dayton's. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=027-421

If anything, you will notice a larger sound stage and more transparency in the midrange and high-end....does wonders for stereo imaging. I don't find that burn-in is a factor with Dayton 5% caps either, so they are good to go right out of the box. No joke.

I have built several sets of speakers, but my favorite project is fiddling with crossover rebuilds. It might surprise you how much better a $100 set of vintage used or even new mass-produced speakers sound with better internals.

[bkeane1259]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

This is only a valid critique if the frequency dependent system noise, sampling resolution and bandwidth of the measurement system is in fact analytically inferior to those parameters of the human ear. (I was doing a bunch of similar optical measurements the other day, so I still have this on the brain).

Psssh...Dude, there is NO WAY that USB mic in the write-up coupled with a standard integrated PC sound card can capture the spectrum needed for proper analysis. Please.

[Tony G]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

Psssh...Dude, there is NO WAY that USB mic in the write-up coupled with a standard integrated PC sound card can capture the spectrum needed for proper analysis. Please.

I never said anything about proper analysis My argument still stands.

[carlspeak]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

So, has anybody done a scientific test comparing a USB mic and PC sound card resolution with human hearing's capability and correlated the two? Please, site me some references or links.

Mayby I should have done some listening tests of the tweeter's output. I'm sure my anecdotal comments would have been well received. ;)

The mic was provided by a German audio software company that sells a high resolution audio response software program (Kirshner audio's ATB-Pro). The software was very detailed in it's output. However, visual examination of the waveforms did turn up any obvious differences. This highlights the crux of the problem of finding very subtle audible differences in caps, resistors, wires, etc.....

As I wrote in a later post, I plan to repeat the set up with a better mic using the ATB-pro software and take a more quantitiative approach.

[Wushuliu]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

I understand that speaker caps tend to sound better after many hours of break-in, burn-in, heat up, or however you want to phrase it. My question is: Regarding high-pass capacitors -- Other than letting a cap break in naturally from many hours of normal listening/use, is there a way to burn them in via a resistor dummy load?? For example, hooking a cap up to an amplifier’s speaker output and then terminating to a resister dummy load that would simulate a speaker and running some program material (songs, frequency sweeps etc) continuously for several days. Is this something that is ever done? Has anyone ever experimented with an alternative way of "cooking a cap?"

oh boy did you pick the WRONG FORUM for this question. You'd be better off getting in touch w/ Jon L over at the circle...

[bkeane1259]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

As far as my project goes, I've made up my mind. In the end, I will be letting my ears (and a buddie's ears) be the judge. Promise to be honest :D

I'm getting an 8 Ohm 100W Non-Inductive Dummy Load Resistor.

I have seasoned Jantzen Superior Z's, so no burn-in required.
I will also be trying these:
ClarityCap 8.2uF ESA Caps
Sonicap 8.2uF G1 Caps
Dayton PMPC-8.2 8.2uF 250V Precision Audio Caps

The plan is to build the XO's and swap the 4 hi-pass caps and compare.

I will first compare the 3 pairs of brand new caps against the seasoned Jantzens. I am very familiar with the "Jantzen sound" of these speakers so it should be fairly easy to compare brand new (unburned) caps against these.

Jantzens will be put to the side while I burn in (via dummy load resistor), half of the new caps. Then a side-by-side speaker comparison will be done with a mono music signal, to judge whether there is a noticeable difference in sound quality between the burned-in dummy load caps and the brand new caps.

Finally, the balance of the caps will be burned in the exact same way as the first half and then a full comparison will be made across all four manufacturers. No test equipment - only two sets of ears. Should be fun.

I'm no scientist.

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

I never said anything about proper analysis My argument still stands.

+1. Even such a 'primitive' rig still exceeds the capabilities of the human ear/brain by a wide margin.

So, has anybody done a scientific test comparing a USB mic and PC sound card resolution with human hearing's capability and correlated the two?

I haven't done anything 'scientific', but I have no illusions that I, or anyone else, can hear differences in response with anything even remotely approaching the accuracy of my USB mic/soundcard.

[Wushuliu]

Re: Burning in hi-pass capacitors

I'm no scientist.

Neither are a lot of people here. Do what you gotta do. And have fun!;)