"Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

[Pete00t]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress...

No pics, but the tops are attached and gluing up. I should be able to start on the bottoms momentarily.

I have the cavity in the base enlarged to receive the xover, since it was a tad small in dimension. Turns out the cavities will be deep enough for them when completed.

I'm in process of mocking the xovers on the actual layout, and am almost finished with both, awaiting solder after voicing. It's a tight-squeeze, but I was able to manage- even using poly caps for everything, the xover is no larger than the base of the triangles. It is however, about 2.5" thick. I was able to use both 4.7 and 10uF Erse TransientX caps in the design for the tweeter circuit. I had to use a 1uF on the 4.7uF and 2.0uF on the 10uF to trim the value. I hope the ones I used are favorable, as I don't want to get better trim-caps, but I will if they are a sonic hindrance.

That's enough for now!
Wolf

EDIT: Added xover picture setting in base of cavity.

Where did you get the Transient Erse caps? I didnt know they were available yet. How are your findings on them?
How much Tetris did you have to play, until you learned to fit a cross over in a small space like that?

[bkeane1259]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress...

How much Tetris did you have to play, until you learned to fit a cross over in a small space like that?

LOL....that's good.

Looking forward to seeing these at the Chicago DIY

Are they going to make it??

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress...

Where did you get the Transient Erse caps? I didnt know they were available yet. How are your findings on them?
How much Tetris did you have to play, until you learned to fit a cross over in a small space like that?

I got the 10uF from Erse, sent as a door-prize for InDIYana this year. Paul K. won the 4.7uF, and we bartered so I could also use those and give a fair evaluation for the caps in this project.

I tried getting more from Erse, but my contact there would not sell them to me, and stated they have still not released them to the public. FWIW- think 'Clarity SA pricing', as I'm told for the TX line.

So- no- they are still not available, but I get to play with a few!!! :D

I played lots of Tetris back in the day, and used Legos much as a kid. I just made a board that fit inside the well, enlarged the well when assumptions were wrong, and then adapted to go 'up' on the boards with a daughter board to get everything assembled.

BTW- that's not a 'final' picture of the bottom, just the start of it. I have not unleashed any top-secret photos to the public yet.

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress...

Are you sure you don't need a few more caps and coils there?

Really starting to like the idea of full active self-powered speakers. In cabinets that have no right angles.

FWIW- it's a 3rd order on the tweeter, second on the woofer, and a notch. That's it. Pretty simple really, just a tight place to put them.

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress...

LOL....that's good.

Looking forward to seeing these at the Chicago DIY

Are they going to make it??

That's the plan, Bryan! I will be glue-sealing the porous edges in a few minutes or so, and then a light sand will be all the cabinets require before they can go. Naked- but present nonetheless.

I had to post that teaser-photo just to see what kinda interest I got. ;):D

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Progress... Cabinets are complete!!!

I have to rub in the glue and sand them yet before I can start installation.

Done!

I also have to install the terminals on the back.

Plates made and ready for terminals and ring connections from the xover. Done!

-And complete the second xover.

...Working on it.

I should have tunes by Friday!

Well- that didn't happen. Should be by the end of the weekend.

WOOHOO!
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Preliminary listening impressions!

And complete the second xover.

DONE!

Tunes have played this evening, and they are now voiced. Dropped a 20 ohmer across the BG, and it's golden! ~1.5-2dB of cut for balance and that was it. I'll update the schematic later....

Oh yeah- and I have to wait for the second spooge-glue job on one of the BG planars. I had a leak that *went whistley* on me during some bass thumps.

Impressions:
I have not heard the BG sound more 'open' than these do, nor as detailed/spacious. I know it's personal taste, I get that, but so far, I like my use of the BG best to me. (Ron's Krystals, Paul's PET, or Paul's Marcato come along in the line in a 3-way tie for second.) I'm partially attributing this openness to the TransientX capacitors I'm using in this design, but I'll know more later...

The D5G can *DIG* in this small box, and really only lacks the bottom 1.5 octaves in tactile feel. I know I can hear 40 out of it at times with certain material, and 30 is barely there under the same conditions. Since the F10 of 38 was modeled, I'm sure that has something to do with it. They image well, like the Dynavox does with its 3" VC, and the midrange is realistic. I know I xoverd kinda low, but that is pretty much the highpoint of its response before it drops like a rock, and you can tell.

Once these break-in, I'll state more of my findings...
Later,
Wolf

[Soundslike]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

Wish I could make it to Chicago to hear them. Should have planned ahead, I guess. We'll be watching from out here in Arizona...

[dst]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

So how do you compare the Hi-Vi 5-inch driver vs. the Dynavox in your Vijon? Any clear winner in your mind as to the mid-bass? How about the B-G vs Hi-Vi planar?

[XtremeRevolution]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

One day I can only hope to be able to design speakers like you do. This project is fantastic.

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

So how do you compare the Hi-Vi 5-inch driver vs. the Dynavox in your Vijon? Any clear winner in your mind as to the mid-bass? How about the B-G vs Hi-Vi planar?

Being that I've heard the Dynavox in a 15 ltr cab, and it gets down and dirty to just north of 30 Hz, I know it's very capable. The HiVi will likely do it in less volume, and has more Xmax via specs to use. The Dynavox is more sensitive for certain- so you should examine that unless your watts are available.

I think the bass of the HiVi is more tactile, and the tonality is spot-on.Not that the Dyn doesn't walk th bass well either, but I think the HiVi is subjectively better at bass due to the size required, and it's capabilities. If you look at the responses of both drivers, the Dynavox is flatter, and extends a lot higher, so it has a better midrange capability, and sounds good doing it too. You probably get another octave out of the Dyn that the D5G doesn't even have available.

As to the midbass- I think the HiVi is a tad warmer, considering what I had to do to the xover to get it right, but neither is a slouch.

The planars are different birds.
You can tell the HiVi stops on a dime, and is VERY articulate, with a lot of detail. There is no overhang here. On or off only. If you want all of the plucks in the guitar, use these. The BG is just as spacious, reaches just shy of another octave lower in response than the RT1.3 can, and has this smoothness in character that lends for longer listening sessions. If you want more sensitivity, use the RT1.3, as it has more available, and is a very dynamic planar. If you want air, I think the BG has more of it. Both image well and have pinpoint accuracy. The HiVi RT1C-A from my Attitudes has more sensitivity still, better air than both, reaches to only 4.5kHz on the bottom, but it also has a delicacy that neither of the other 2 mentioned seem to have in their arsenal. Articulate, but not forceful, and very detailed.

It depends on your objective, where you want to xover, how loud you want them to play, and your choice of planar-sound.

None of these are bad sounding, nor are they short on performance.

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

Wish I could make it to Chicago to hear them. Should have planned ahead, I guess. We'll be watching from out here in Arizona...

Yeah- woulda been nice to meet you an' Mark in person if you both could have come up.

Wait til you see the fully constructed pictures....
I like these!

Later,
Wolf

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

One day I can only hope to be able to design speakers like you do. This project is fantastic.

Thank you! You'll get to hear them this coming weekend! :D

Later,
Wolf

[Ron_E]

Re: "Trichotomy"- an oddly non-disparate design...

I'm looking forward to hearing these Saturday. Thanks for the honorable mention on the Krystals.

Ron

[Wolf]

Re: "Trichotomy"- Preliminary listening impressions!

Tunes have played this evening, and they are now voiced. Dropped a 20 ohmer across the BG, and it's golden! ~1.5-2dB of cut for balance and that was it. I'll update the schematic later....

Well- watching TV revealed some limitations with some sibilance in the top-end, as well as some problems distinguishing some speech of a few actress' vocal ranges. The problem lies in the top-octave, believe it or not, as it rises before final drop-off just shy of 20 kHz. It started to grate on my ears a bit, and balance seemed off. I used another 2 components in a tweaked-zobel to get the top-end right and make vocals sweeter without SSSSSS. Values are 2.5uF and 5 ohms. 1.5uF and 2uF weren't enough to make any difference, and 10 ohms was not enough cut. I assume a 2.7uF would fit the bill well as a swapped part.

Now that it's final and I've lived with it and broken them in (Matt was over tonight) for a few days, I'm confident they sound like they should.

See you all Saturday in Chi-Town!
Wolf