Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

[ckmoore]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

my brother is acutally wanting to do his surround system which he currently has a ported 10" sub. we are concerned with the fact that the current design is lacking bass. i don't think i've seen where it was discussed how much that might effect music or how well it blends into a subwoofer so there are some concerns at this point for us. he loves the look though and being low profile and able to hang on a wall is a big plus to him.

Then why not just "hang" another speaker design? While being on the wall isn't ideal for some designs, adverse affects would be minimal for many solid, existing designs, or you could even venture into tweaking the crossover to compensate some.

[tashspop]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

my brother is acutally wanting to do his surround system which he currently has a ported 10" sub. we are concerned with the fact that the current design is lacking bass. i don't think i've seen where it was discussed how much that might effect music or how well it blends into a subwoofer so there are some concerns at this point for us. he loves the look though and being low profile and able to hang on a wall is a big plus to him.

[Pete Basel]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

I'm curious, it sounds like most of you are planning to use these for HT at least
part of the time, and some are saying they do not want subwoofers. Obviously,
the more challenging HT movies have the most demanding LFE of any source
material, so what is the plan to just keep these on small to avoid overloading them?

Anyone considered a thin sub under or behind a couch?

Aiming for 40 Hz is good for most music source but I just don't see how this is good
enough for demanding video applications.

[tashspop]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Actually, I forgot to mention that the other frustrating thing I found out while doing this project is that 4" midwoofers make terrible woofers in 3-ways. Reason being, their Fs is so high that it creates a resonance with the Low-Pass filter, and you end up with these huge, ugly humps in the bass response. The bass sucks; it's all punchy and sounds like the speakers are made of cigar boxes. Once embroiled in that battle, I found it was safest to just seal the speakers and let the sub handle the bass. But that went against my original goal of having a 3-way full-range speaker I could mount on the wall. So back to the drawing board again with the design.

Soooo... the Event Horizon in its current draft I have dubbed the Event Horizon XL, because it needed bigger woofers with lower Fs. Yes, it's a bigger cabinet. How big, I don't even remember right now. I'll have to go look at my sketches.

Paul I'm here to bug you too. did you get a chance to look up the box size on the horizon xl? will there be two sizes available sealed/ported?

[cameronthorne]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Soooo... the Event Horizon in its current draft I have dubbed the Event Horizon XL, because it needed bigger woofers with lower Fs. Yes, it's a bigger cabinet. How big, I don't even remember right now. I'll have to go look at my sketches.

+1 Subscribe me to updates about the Event Horizon XL! As I mentioned in my thread, I am looking for a high-value wall-mount, that is capable of being run without subs in a small room.

Other than time (can't help you with that), what can we do to help you realize this design?

-- Cameron

[JasonP]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

It is interesting to note that when I modeled on-wall speakers in Jeff's Baffle Diffraction and Boundary Simulator, 5 to 6 inches of depth ends up being the sweet spot for most common baffle widths. Also, design looks solid, prototypes look great. Good job! Oh, and I only noticed the depth on the simulator since I'm designing an on-wall center channel to go under my projector screen, though I'm looking for something smaller

[mobius]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

The reason I asked is that I'm playing around with some ND91-8's and although the values are probably smaller than what you need, I'm getting away with 5mH and 200uF in sims, that'll cost $16.00 using Erse and npe's. Seems worth it considering I'm thinking of using 4 of the little woofers per side. I was just wondering if there were any negatives to the response.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

I'd be interested to know if you tried an impedance flattening notch on the woofers (yes, I know, some big values) and didn't like it.

The components in the impedance comp circuit would cost more than the woofers!

[mobius]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

I'd be interested to know if you tried an impedance flattening notch on the woofers (yes, I know, some big values) and didn't like it.

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Actually, I forgot to mention that the other frustrating thing I found out while doing this project is that 4" midwoofers make terrible woofers in 3-ways. Reason being, their Fs is so high that it creates a resonance with the Low-Pass filter, and you end up with these huge, ugly humps in the bass response. The bass sucks; it's all punchy and sounds like the speakers are made of cigar boxes. Once embroiled in that battle, I found it was safest to just seal the speakers and let the sub handle the bass. But that went against my original goal of having a 3-way full-range speaker I could mount on the wall. So back to the drawing board again with the design.

Soooo... the Event Horizon in its current draft I have dubbed the Event Horizon XL, because it needed bigger woofers with lower Fs. Yes, it's a bigger cabinet. How big, I don't even remember right now. I'll have to go look at my sketches.

[jcrane82]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Paul, any idea how much larger you will require the cabinet to be? Would it be beneficial to replace the dual B3Ns with a dome midrange like the RS52AN-8 or a DC50FA-8 in order to just have one large cabinet? That might be enough additional volume without increasing the outside box size.

[jcrane82]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Paul, I would be willing to be your guinea pig on the larger cabinet size. I am also only an hour away from Chicago so you would be able to see/listen to the final result. Just let me know what you were thinking.

Another idea (which I am sure you have already thought of).....how would a 2.5 way speaker with 4 HiVi B4N's wired in series-parallel do? Could you have the low pass on the two extra woofers set at about 120 hz to boost your low end? I know that baffle step isn't an issue for wall mounted speakers in the sub 400 hz range, but can you use a half way design to boost low end bass for this application?

[Paul Carmody]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

I just can't seem to find any DIY designs out there for full range on-the-wall speakers.

I know, right? It would be the bees knees if I pulled it off. But gosh, it's not been easy.

[jcrane82]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Yeah I was reading your build thread earlier ckmoore. That is basically what I want to build, but I won't be using a sub for this room, so I would like the speakers to extend to 50 hz if possible. I am basically trying to defy the laws of physics by making a small speaker have bass response. The room I am designing these for is not my theatre room, and these will be used with TV and light music during dinner and such. In all honesty, anything will be better than the TV speakers that we are currently using.

I am thinking of just doing the MTM overnight sensations as they will probably be adequate, but I think a 3-way would be nicer. I have a very good power amp (4 ohm capable too), so power isn't an issue. Thoughts on a 3-way using two M3N mids wired in parallel, and M6N as a woofer (tweeter to be determined)?

I just can't seem to find any DIY designs out there for full range on-the-wall speakers.

[ckmoore]

Re: Event Horizon: a slim, wall-mounted WMTMW

Variation on Event Horizons, with Paul's assistance.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?228815-Sensational-Events-a-build