Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

[ryanbouma]

How come tweeters like these aren't more common:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1028

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-084

SEAS DXT

?

I'd like a high effeciency tweeter that'll have directivity and require low value XO component, much like I would expect from some of those. Are there any other options I've missed. I've done a lot of searching. I'd like it to be cheap :o

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

How come tweeters like these aren't more common:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-1028

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-084

SEAS DXT

?

I'd like a high effeciency tweeter that'll have directivity and require low value XO component, much like I would expect from some of those. Are there any other options I've missed. I've done a lot of searching. I'd like it to be cheap :o

Waveguides that small are only good to 3KHz or higher. Below that frequency, they don't offer anything over non-waveguide tweeters.

The DXT has a larger frame, usable to a lower frequency, but that larger frame makes it more expensive to ship, as well as manufacture.

[ryanbouma]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

Ok good to know. I suppose that's because the wave lengths are to long. So the first 2 I posted wouldn't have any advantage over a flush mounted dome if crossed at say 2khz? The seas is the most attractive in terms of FR and such, but for $11 the Vifa was tempting me? Are there any large waveguides? I like zaphs 2.5 way waveguide project, to offer some sense of what I'm trying to achieve.

Thanks again.

[DDF]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

I think it comes down to looks and what the market wants. How many commercial speakers do you see with the DXT?

[fntn]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

Larger guides that work effectively at low frequencies in a sense force the hand of the designer with respect to polar response. In order to keep the vertical listening window wide, you then have to lower the crossover frequency. Keeping the flanges small enables closer placement and mitigates some of the sensitivity to vertical lobing. This is why some manufacturers have gone in the direction of elliptical waveguides.

[patrickm]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

i've used the vifa, and it worked out well for me, crossed just a little below 3khz. johnnyrichards also has some projects with the buyout nuance with the large waveguide that seemed to turn out pretty well... those might be a good choice to play around with given the price. i've used the smaller nuance waveguide too, mainly to avoid flush-mounting their octagonal-framed tweeter, and those were pretty good, all things considered, for a $2.50 tweeter. links to my projects are in my signature, johnny's are at http://gonecatfishin.net

[Face]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

I think it comes down to looks and what the market wants. How many commercial speakers do you see with the DXT?

I've seen one so far.

[DDF]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

I've seen one so far.

Mainstream commercial speakers are 90% marketing. I think, in my mind, that Cerwin Vega and similar companies that for years sold nasty resonant deep honker horns really gave waveguides a bad name with those in even the moderate know.

Its a long uphill battle to overcome that stigma. Think of Japanese cars in the mid 80s, Korean cars now. All good products but burdened by years of under performing junk in their past.

[ryanbouma]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

So waveguides are good, but the commercial sector doesn't endorse them, so my options are limited...

Edit - can I build my own? I wouldn't know what the profile and/or dimensions should be. I'd like a pre-fit tweeter.

[Pete Schumacher]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

So waveguides are good, but the commercial sector doesn't endorse them, so my options are limited...

Edit - can I build my own? I wouldn't know what the profile and/or dimensions should be. I'd like a pre-fit tweeter.

We're working on a group effort to come up with a waveguide profile that will accept a standard dome tweeter on the back.

So far, a couple of the 8" diameter, 2" deep waveguides look really good, and one or two of the 3" deep versions look good too. One of the 2" deep versions is being duplicated by D, Rose into a 10"x17" MDF baffle, to match the PE .75 cf cabinet. If this test mule works out, he's thinking about making these available to the members here if a decent price can be worked out for the time and material. Below is a shot of his 2nd attempt, and it looks really good.

[Pallas]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

I think it comes down to looks and what the market wants. How many commercial speakers do you see with the DXT?

As more people hear the big Revels and other modern speakers that offer consistent directivity through the midrange, I think the market will more and more start to want them.

But probably elliptical units (like the Harman EOS) rather than circles, because at those frequencies center-center spacing certainly matters.

[GranteedEV]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

To my knowledge, commercial companies tend to have shallow waveguides built in to the enclosure design, rather than part of the tweeter. There's a good few commercial speakers that use waveguides. I've seen them on Spendor, Genelec, Aperion, Mackie, of course, various Harman speakers.

There's some good narrow directivity horns out there for DIYers, like the SEOS-10, but smaller stuff for mating dome tweeters to 5-8 inch midrange drivers remains hard to find. You really need to carve out a waveguide yourself =/

[Erich H]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

There's some good narrow directivity horns out there for DIYers, like the SEOS-10, but smaller stuff for mating dome tweeters to 5-8 inch midrange drivers remains hard to find. You really need to carve out a waveguide yourself =/

For what it's worth, I have a SEOS-6 coming soon. I can send it to someone for testing when it arrives. The fiberglass company has been VERY slow to get the other sizes started. I may have to switch companies and look for someone else.

[ryanbouma]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

Thanks for the info guys.

Pete, thanks for that thread, I've started reading it, learning lots. Hope you guys can get something together. So far that looks great.

Eric, a seos 6 sounds great! Except, not to sound rude, but the prices don't match my goals :( http://www.diysoundgroup.com/AutotechGroupBuy.htm

The seos 10 isn't listed, and maybe the 6 would be cheaper. So I may be wrong. I've been following your efforts over on avs though, and really wanted to grab a couple mfw15s. Your support is appreciated, regardless of the prices

Look forward to hearing about the seos 6 though!

[ryanbouma]

Re: Why aren't there more waveguide tweeters?

Edit - the Dayton 8" waveguide keeps tempting me. Just seems not quite right. Anyone get any good results from using it with a cheap dome? Seems to me, a $10 waveguide + a $20 dome tweeter could = a killer tweeter. Soo big though :o

And how about the 6 x 6 elliptical? http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=270-316