a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

[Interlochen2]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

Sheez Mike, take a nap. I am almost 100% certain you are talking about me using a pair of NHT speakers as a reference. Well, all I can say is this: when you are building speakers using $100 or less worth of parts, what do you propose to use as a reference when building speakers like that? One of those gazillion dollar scams you wax so poetic about? When I drop a K on drivers alone, I will hold myself to a higher standard. Until then, try your best to understand WTF "reference" really means.

When building a speaker whose components cost amount to $50 I would indeed use the best speakers I had on hand as a reference. I would think the probability of a better end product would be higher, though the process frustration would quite possibly be much higher as well.

I know. I'm 53 and built my first speaker when I was 8.

[lunchmoney]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

This is the problem with this forum:

People have just enough information to believe the lies they make up. Weather technical, or emotional.

Then they feel the need to cite some of the billion "credible sources" around the internet that argue (very well mind you) in both directions!

It is sickening, and drags good people into mudslinging.

Example: I recently read a post over in the gallery about a "reference speaker" someone uses.

1)It is NOWHERE near reference quality.

2) If that is their definition of reference, then they have never truly heard a reference quality speaker, or system for that matter (which the sum of the parts outweighs the original anyway..I have heard good speakers sound like junk because of the associated equipment) yet will be very vocal about what sounds good, what sounds bad, and what is a waste of money.

...The worst part is: The information, which has a strong chance of not being all correct, is believed by newcomers and novices alike because this person is "credible".

There are only 3, maybe 4 credible people on this forum IMHO. The rest are just at different points along the line of exploring the hobby as a whole. If you look closely, those 3 or 4 have a depth of expirence that spans well into the tens of years and tens of thousands of hours.

Does that mean others cannot design a good speaker? No... There are many good designs on this forum.

Does that mean everyone is an expert with a little knowledge, HE L L NO! Same applies for amplifier design. It is far more complex than any of the arguments in this post touch upon, on either side.

Its about time everyone STFU and start to just share what we learn, know, and what's good about what we do. If I wanted to read this crap, I would be checking my e-mail at work.

Whoa dude. This is a bit out of hand. Indeed you shouldn't read "this crap" if it really makes you that angry.

Sorry to call you out on the forum here, but you really just took a big swipe at a lot of people.

:(

[johnastockman]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

+1

LOL. I seriously regret getting involved in the first place... Moving on!

Moving on: those are some nice-lookin' speakers in your avatar!


John A.

[lunchmoney]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS:

An amp costing a few hundred bucks will get you GREAT sound.

Perfection? Perhaps not. But GREAT.

[Face]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS:

An amp costing a few hundred bucks will get you GREAT sound.

Perfection? Perhaps not. But GREAT.

I don't believe anyone here is denying that.

[lunchmoney]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

I don't believe anyone here is denying that.

Nope, but it bears repeating.

[Jeff B.]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

Whoa dude. This is a bit out of hand. Indeed you shouldn't read "this crap" if it really makes you that angry.

Sorry to call you out on the forum here, but you really just took a big swipe at a lot of people.

:(

*********

[domwilson]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

I read this thread...I'm just wondering, do you really have to spend mega bucks on a amp to get good sound? Are there low price alternatives that offer quality sound? Any suggestions? Shields Up!

[lunchmoney]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

I read this thread...I'm just wondering, do you really have to spend mega bucks on a amp to get good sound? Are there low price alternatives that offer quality sound? Any suggestions? Shields Up!

Emotiva is a popular brand amongst budget audiophiles that (supposedly) steps up a bit without being way expensive.

[theLinks]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

Emotiva is a popular brand amongst budget audiophiles that (supposedly) steps up a bit without being way expensive.

I have a harmon, denon, and a emotiva. I was surprise at the quality, the dead quiet, of the emotiva. I owned it for a year and love it. I would buy another one.
Tim

[Deward Hastings]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

When it comes to recordings, recording quality is nice, but if you don't enjoy the performance....it's just a "demo cut"...

I really wish more people understood that . . .

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS:

An amp costing a few hundred bucks will get you GREAT sound.

Perfection? Perhaps not. But GREAT.

I'd argue (I did argue) that "perfection" is possible for a few hundred DIY bucks (amplifiers with no audible distortion ideally matched to their respective drivers). To expand in greater specific on a previous comment: Any amp, "audiophile" or otherwise, that sounds "different" from a LM3886 driving (only) a Seas Millennium tweeter is defective, either in design or application. The same can be said about a number of low-cost amplifiers with mid-range and woofer drivers (including the 3886 within its power limitations). It's a little more difficult to push multiple drivers simultaneously through a crossover (requiring, particularly, a lot more power capability) but you're right, great (if not "perfect") performance is still possible quite cheap.

[domwilson]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

I've heard and read that amplifiers from the mid to late 70's offer good sound quality (if maintained) at a reasonable price. What are your thoughts on this? In addition, I understand the FCC dropped most of its power rating requirements for audio amplifiers in 1997. How does this affect amplifiers produced today?

[Sydney]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

I've heard and read that amplifiers from the mid to late 70's offer good sound quality (if maintained) at a reasonable price. What are your thoughts on this?...

Not all of them, I can think of a few bad designs.

[Pallas]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

HERE'S THE GOOD NEWS:

An amp costing a few hundred bucks will get you GREAT sound.

Perfection? Perhaps not. But GREAT.

And to finish the thought, the way to asymptotically approach perfection from there is....better mains speakers, multiple subwoofers, good EQ for said multiple subwoofers in the modal region, and other things like that.

Except inasmuch as those multiple subwoofers require their own amp channels, "upgrading" the amp just isn't a part of it. Unless the one(s) already in use just isn't powerful enough.

I read this thread...I'm just wondering, do you really have to spend mega bucks on a amp to get good sound? Are there low price alternatives that offer quality sound? Any suggestions? Shields Up!

Thinking the "sound" of amps is simply a waste of time. Pick one you like for whatever arbitrary reason suits your fancy. And then spend the actual effort on things that actually matter.

Kvetching about the amp is like a football team trying to fix the problems caused by an immobile and inaccurate quarterback who's prone to fumbling by...planning to sign Albert Haynesworth.

[waynew]

Re: a bit OT. Is an 'audiophile' amp a waste of money?

This is an interesting thread, flaming aside. I would like to offer up a few opinions and maybe a few facts.

1. I have been involved in the voicing of several speakers; The JCW's (the W is for my last name), the Statements, The Tritrix, The Mavericks, The Exclamations, The AviaTrix, The Cinderellas, The Scrappy's, The Singularities and the Stentorians. I enjoyed all of them.

2. My reference speakers have Accuton and Hiquphon drivers and boutique caps. They cost a lot. They sound very good and I enjoy them greatly.

3. I have a Tube amp, and several SS amps of varying "audiophileness". I like to play with the cheap ones, and the expensive ones. I really enjoy them.

4. I like to expirement and see if I can truly "hear" differences. I enjoy this.

5. Upon comparing a Musical Fidelity to an Arcam, I believe that I heard a significant difference, and upon trading opinions with Curt, we both had the same opinions as to what we heard (no leading, no guiding). It was an enjoyable experience.

6. Building new and different small 2-ways is, for me, an enjoyable experience (strangly enough, none of them has ever sounded better than my reference system, but I still enjoy them).

Here's the deal boys, it's a frickin hobby, okay! ENJOY IT. If you are looking for amplifier nirvana, I wish you an enjoyable search. If you like to build 2 way speakers, enjoy yourself. It's all about enjoyment, and at the end of the day, if you think you can hear a difference in an amp, then good for you. If you like swapping out cables...good for you. If you are all about squeezing that last penny's worth of value out of a super budget design...awesome! Take people's opinions and statements and let them bounce around in your mind prior to discounting them out of hand. It's the internet, and crazy things get posted, but no one requires that you believe or dis-believe.

Soap box rant completed.

WayneW......over and out.