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Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

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  • Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

    So I ordered 30 of the sony buyout drivers, and the more I played with it, the better it looked in a small sealed cab with a Q of about 0.875-0.900. What better to put with a buyout driver than a big ol' fat paper cone tweeter? They have their advantages....

    The is also the first venture that I am undertaking that is relying 100% on my own measurements. Here was the method:

    1. Break in woofers, measure T/S with WT2
    2. Design cabs around T/S
    3. Build 4 cabs in one day (Why build just ONE pair? )
    4. Measure Woofer IMP in cab
    5. Measure Fq response mounted in cabinet 1M at 1W (middle of living room)
    6. Get help from Jeff.
    6.5 Remeasure :o
    7. Realize my stoopit mistake and fix.... Throw it all in PCD and Design.

    Below is what I came up with so far. The tweeter has really funky response. It is diffraction related for sure. If I tweak it I can get a 40dB reverse null, but I get a 5dB dip at 1.2 K doing so. So I stuck with the flatter FQ response and 20dB null...

    Any thoughts? I did not include my "z" axis because it is accounted for in the measurements. Wondering if I need to move the woofer x-y?

    This is DIY for the sake of DIY. It is fun!!!! :D

    Subjectively speaking, this lil buyout is one heck of a driver. It will not handle much, or do deep bass, but it is super smooth with a fair amount of detail... running full range! The Bass it does have is "warm" and articulate. It is actually very nice.
    Attached Files
    .

  • #2
    Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

    I like your shop gnome!

    Looking good! 4 cabs in a day...that's productive. You could go quad for your desktop system!:D
    Co-conspirator in the development of the "CR Gnarly Fidelity Reduction Unit" - Registered Trademark, Patent Pending.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

      Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
      Any thoughts? I did not include my "z" axis because it is accounted for in the measurements. Wondering if I need to move the woofer x-y?
      If you extracted phase, then you no longer have any Z offset shift accounted for in your measurements and would need to enter one into the program if you want an accurate model.

      If you are running with only the measured phase from OmniMic, then your phase relationship may not be exact since Omnimic adjusts to the peak of the impulse response. If you measured each driver individually then their impulses may have a fixed delay between them, but you can not see that in two separate impulses, so that information is lost when the phase is adjusted within the program.

      Either way, you need to enter the Z offset to be accurate.

      This is why I detailed the three-measurement method in an earlier post recently (the dlr method). This finds the offset for you and you know that everything matches in terms of phase.
      Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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      • #4
        Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

        Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
        If you extracted phase, then you no longer have any Z offset shift accounted for in your measurements and would need to enter one into the program if you want an accurate model.

        If you are running with only the measured phase from OmniMic, then your phase relationship may not be exact since Omnimic adjusts to the peak of the impulse response. If you measured each driver individually then their impulses may have a fixed delay between them, but you can not see that in two separate impulses, so that information is lost when the phase is adjusted within the program.

        Either way, you need to enter the Z offset to be accurate.

        This is why I detailed the three-measurement method in an earlier post recently (the dlr method). This finds the offset for you and you know that everything matches in terms of phase.
        Thanks Jeff,
        I did take a total measurement as well, so its a easy fix. I'll have another go tonight.
        .

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

          thats pretty cool. gonna try a 2.5way while your at it?
          " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

          Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
          Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

          http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
          http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

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          • #6
            Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

            Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
            S
            This is DIY for the sake of DIY. It is fun!!!! :D
            When it stops being fun, it is time to go skiing or take up knitting or something. It is all about being fun - the fact we have something tangible when we are done is secondary to the experience.

            How are those Goldwood cone tweeters?
            Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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            • #7
              Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

              Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
              When it stops being fun, it is time to go skiing or take up knitting or something. It is all about being fun - the fact we have something tangible when we are done is secondary to the experience.

              How are those Goldwood cone tweeters?
              Thanks Johnny. I agree. This project is like rehab for me in this hobby as of late.

              It is. It measures well with a very damped impedance peak at 1.2K. From some folling with it, it seems to me nice and smooth, with decent extension. Laid back maybe, but typical cone. There is nothing blatently "Wrong" with it and for $3, it may just be a new good budget tweeter istead of neo-domes.

              Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
              thats pretty cool. gonna try a 2.5way while your at it?
              I am dying to. I need to get these little ones finished, then I am thiking of a MTMWWW/WWW (3 on fron 3 on back push/pull) 2.5 way. I am really likeig the way these sound. I have just been playing with them full range! Cannot wait to get the tweeter involved.
              .

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              • #8
                Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                The cone mids and tweeters I have used over the years all seem to do pretty well with a single cap plus resistor. Eventually, it is what led me to realize that those cheap monkey coffins used such simple networks not just because the bean-counters demanded it.
                Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                  Originally posted by johnnyrichards View Post
                  The cone mids and tweeters I have used over the years all seem to do pretty well with a single cap plus resistor. Eventually, it is what led me to realize that those cheap monkey coffins used such simple networks not just because the bean-counters demanded it.
                  Tang Band W3-1053SC 3" Full Range Driver plus a Dayton Audio DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer, sealed, crossed at 300-400 Hz with a series crossover. Bog simple (just a couple crossover parts), sounds surprisingly good. Gets the good bass of the DC160 while avoiding the midrange mush, and while the W3-1053 doesn't have the "extended high end" of a cheap dome it does have a reasonably smooth and pleasant extension and the mids are reasonably clean (and uninterrupted by careless crossover design). Easy load for any amplifier (and only needs one per speaker, unlike the better quality 2-ways with active crossovers). Certainly plenty good for surrounds or "easy listening " bookshelfs, better than many of the two-ways that I've heard with much pricier drivers. I'd take it over the BR-1 any day. Used to be able to get the drivers on sale quite cheap, too (though I haven't seen that for a while), and it does take a fairly large inductor (watch the buyouts).
                  "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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                  • #10
                    Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                    Looks like a fun one Mike. You'll get some inherent directivity with that cone tweeter which could actually be a plus in some regards depending on your goals.

                    Looks like I'll follow suit with an MTMMM for an on-wall HT speaker mounted near the corners using the Dayton ND16 in their elliptical waveguide.

                    The 80Hz rolloff should be OK for HT. The MT XO would be about 3 to 3.5Khz due to the loading limitations of the small waveguide. Center to center spacing might be an issue but likely not too bad 17 feet back.

                    The best part is that I'd just have to paint it with the room's trim paint using a mini roller and add some white grill cloth. Might be a weeklong project if I wasn't so busy with so many things.

                    Bill
                    The first one through the wall always gets the bloodiest...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                      Attached is the update with the z offsets and baffle geometry accounted for.

                      The crossover is more complex than I hoped for. 3BW tweeter 2LR woofer. Zobel on both. Cannot account for the HUGE diffraction signature I am seeing around 1K otherwise. Meh.

                      Thoughts?
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by mzisserson; 09-27-2011, 08:43 PM. Reason: 3LR to 3BW TYPO
                      .

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                      • #12
                        Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                        Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                        The crossover is more complex than I hoped for. 3LR tweeter 2LR woofer. Zobel on both. Cannot account for the HUGE diffraction signature I am seeing around 1K otherwise. Meh.

                        Thoughts?
                        Consider trying the Tang Band W3-1053SC crossed lower (much lower) . . . it's more forgiving (of a simple crossover) and probably sounds a lot better than that "really funky" (your words) tweeter.

                        Oh, and what's "3LR" ? ? ?
                        "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                          Originally posted by Deward Hastings View Post
                          Consider trying the Tang Band W3-1053SC crossed lower (much lower) . . . it's more forgiving (of a simple crossover) and probably sounds a lot better than that "really funky" (your words) tweeter.

                          Oh, and what's "3LR" ? ? ?
                          3LR is what you get after a 14 hour workday consisting of facilitating continuous improvement plans and trying to get buy in from a union.

                          3BW is more like it. the "Really funky" (It's a technical term) part is the diffraction, not the tweeter. I have them, for $3/ea I will stick with them. I enjoy a good challenge;).
                          .

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                          • #14
                            Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                            Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                            Attached is the update with the z offsets and baffle geometry accounted for.

                            The crossover is more complex than I hoped for. 3BW tweeter 2LR woofer. Zobel on both. Cannot account for the HUGE diffraction signature I am seeing around 1K otherwise. Meh.

                            Thoughts?
                            Are you sure about those offsets? They make no sense to me at all.
                            Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Lil' Brit... The "LS 3/5-MEH" Monitor build thread

                              Originally posted by mzisserson View Post
                              I have them, for $3/ea I will stick with them.
                              GIGO. But "just for fun", if you really don't care what they sound like, sure . . .
                              "It suggests that there is something that is happening in the real system that is not quite captured in the models."

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