"A charge builds up in the insulation"

[OlderMongrel]

Boutique cables seem to be more prevalent than ever. I don't want to start another "I can hear it no you can't" flame war, but the following product makes an interesting claim.

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_703CMB2...rch=xlr+cables

From the above page:

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"Most higher-end cables require a break-in period before they perform their best. A charge builds up in the insulation through continual use, increasing the efficiency of the cable. This charge can dissipate when the cable's not in use, giving you less than optimal performance until it builds up again.

AudioQuest's Dielectric-Bias System (DBS) eliminates this break-in period. A small battery pack attached to the cable polarizes the insulation with a 48-volt charge, giving you clear, expressive sound from your system every time you turn it on. This also helps eliminate the time delay that can create audio jitter."

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I think the copy above contains some specific objective claims that go beyond "we think it sounds better". What kind of charge builds up in a cable thru continual use? What exactly is the charge? What is "cable efficiency" in this context and how much does it increase?

BTW, I did not know that this stuff had spread to pro cables, or to Crutchfield.

John

[greywarden]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Capacitance?

[domwilson]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

From my days as a bench tech...
When a charge builds up in a insulator, it is usually an electrostatic charge.
The common device that uses this principle is called a capacitor. The longer it takes for that charge to dissipate voltage into a given load (resistance) determines it's capacitance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Capacitance?

Exactly. If a charge 'builds up' in the insulation it's because the cable is acting as a capacitor. It's universally agreed that high capacitance is not a good cable characteristic. Snake oil.

I did not know that this stuff had spread to pro cables, or to Crutchfield.

So long as someone will pay for a product someone will make it and others will sell it. Whether it works or not does not enter the equation.

[martyh]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Naturally I believe every word in their copy and buy it in an instant.....if it only came in blue.

[[email protected]]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

would not a 48v charge to a circuit make a lot of heat and make it a magnet?

[daryl]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

I don't want to start another "I can hear it no you can't" flame war

I think you mean an 'Emperors New Coths' thread.

There is a very good reason why you don't know to what "charge" or what "efficiency" they are referring.

They are lying, plain and simple.

They simply make a vague statement that sounds technical in nature and show slick looking product.

Anyone with the requisite wallet size and dim wit will not dwell upon it any further or do anymore reasearch except to find out where they can buy them.

[daryl]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

would not a 48v charge to a circuit make a lot of heat and make it a magnet?

No and No.

[Eric.DeYoung]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

"A charge builds up in the insulation through continual use, increasing the efficiency of the cable."

It seems to me that no charge would build up over time with an AC signal... Unless you have a significant DC bias - which I really don't think would audibly change anything in the cable anyways :rolleyes:

[Whitneyville1]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

In my short career in the US Air Farce (sic) I worked on the most sensitive electronics on combat aircraft there was at frequencies that caused me early cataracts from being in those SHF RF fields. Gold plated silver conductors of a purity now only seen in space project stuff was what I worked with everyday. Guess what? It didn't have to "break in". It only deteriorated with use. Just like Faraday and Volta said it would over 200 years earlier. I read this kind of tripe and I can't understand anyone with the education of a 3rd grader believing it. Clyde Jones (elementary science teacher) would have ridiculed me, Felix Vestal (high school chemistry and organic chemistry teacher) would have said "Prove it", Bud Bubey (high school physics teacher) would have said "Prove it in the lab!" and in college and at OSU saying such a thing would have gotten me tossed out of school on my ear, with no chance of re-applying. The Emperor not only has no clothes, he's lying in State in his coffin nude and only the kids under 4 know it.:rolleyes: I never thought Crutchfeild would shovel these piles.

[JarOfSonicMen]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

So long as someone will pay for a product someone will make it and others will sell it.

Mr Barnum would be proud.

[Whitneyville1]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

"Jar", Bill is right, but what does that say about our sense of morality? I'm not dumb enough not to know it hasn't gone on for 5000 of my lifetimes and more, I just keep (vainly) hoping Herr Omni will become just a tiny bit smarter.

[MagicO309d]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Why not produce XLR and RCA interconnect cables with a +10db amplifier built into one connector end and a -10db attenuator built into the opposite end connector? It would provide a nice, solid 10db external noise reduction cut across the audio spectrum.

Who wouldn't pay a few $10's of thousands of dollars for such cables that actually fix a real non-existing problem! ;)

[billfitzmaurice]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Why not produce XLR and RCA interconnect cables with a +10db amplifier built into one connector end and a -10db attenuator built into the opposite end connector? It would provide a nice, solid 10db external noise reduction cut across the audio spectrum.

Since the CMRR of a typical balanced input runs at over 100dB there's nothing to be gained. With respect to unbalanced connections S/N tends to run over 90dB, and the main source of noise isn't RFI or EMI, it's ground looping, so increasing S/N would have no effect. As this product claims to reduce noise in balanced systems it's addressing a problem that doesn't exist via a technology that can't work.

[fastbike1]

Re: "A charge builds up in the insulation"

Bill, an outstanding description. A perfect match for it's marketing niche. :D


Somewhere out there a marketing guy is going to read this statement and say " that's a great product slogan". :rolleyes:

it's addressing a problem that doesn't exist via a technology that can't work.