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AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

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  • #16
    Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

    Originally posted by djkest View Post
    I guess I have to register with DIY mobile audio to see the results? No thanks.
    *shrug*

    Your loss.

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    • #17
      Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

      Originally posted by ErinH View Post
      I go by whatever is rated as the weakest link. Whichever one that happens to be.
      Ultimately this is just a means to determine spl on the low end when you use your enclosure modeling programs. Where we typically have to rely on mfg spec'd xmax - which can be given in any number of ways -, this is a way to have something more tangible. An xmax value given with some degree of rated distortion so that you can better compare options.

      Case in point: The scan 18wu has 9mm xmax limited by cms (~12mm by Bl, though). Spec is 8mm, iirc. They actually underrate their drivers it seems. At least that one.
      This particular 18h might spec higher (honestly, I have no idea what they spec it at) but it measures at 3.5mm by cms (4.1 by Bl).

      Make more sense?
      While I agree with you.. I have to wonder...

      Do (smaller) boxes introduce their own effect on the compliance curve? Does a driver become less, or more linear in free air?
      :blues: Flat frequency response, a smooth sound power response free of resonance, careful driver-integration, and high dynamic range both upward and downward :blues:

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      • #18
        Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

        Despite not testing stellar, I do love these speakers. They seem to be able to do things that the tests do not indicate they should be able to do.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

          Indeed, I wonder about compliance also.

          If "the weakest link" is the case, these NHT drivers only have about 2.5mm of xmax. Then again, two of them together hit 110dB at 2.5mm (I love purpose-built drivers)
          I am trolling you.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

            Originally posted by winslow View Post
            Despite not testing stellar, I do love these speakers. They seem to be able to do things that the tests do not indicate they should be able to do.
            Like what? Seriously, are you on meth, Jason?

            :p
            ErinsAudioCorner.com

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            • #21
              Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

              Originally posted by GranteedEV View Post
              While I agree with you.. I have to wonder...

              Do (smaller) boxes introduce their own effect on the compliance curve? Does a driver become less, or more linear in free air?
              Small boxes introduce nonlinearities in driver excursion; a form of distortion. So, compared to a small sealed box, free air is more linear.
              Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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              • #22
                Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                Dude if I had some, I would take it...wife is about 2.5 months pregnant again and my day job is managing a H&B Block office. No rest right now. Combine that with me trying to learn how to use akabak to make some unity-style horns for the car, I am pooped.

                But you've heard those drivers for how many years now and have loved them...you know you have. I do want to hear some Illuminators though.

                Originally posted by ErinH View Post
                Like what? Seriously, are you on meth, Jason?

                :p

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                • #23
                  Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                  Originally posted by winslow View Post

                  But you've heard those drivers for how many years now and have loved them...you know you have. I do want to hear some Illuminators though.
                  Yes, but we know that install and tune is what really makes the difference. I just can't get past the low xmax. At nearly $800/pair, it's just sad.

                  And, to be honest, I have heard these for years now. I like the scan more. At Low Frequency in the car, it's about pressurization without distortion. The room modes more than kill any hope for achieving sonic bliss and the install really dictates what the outcome is.

                  I don't know... I just don't see it.
                  ErinsAudioCorner.com

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                  • #24
                    Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                    Originally posted by Jeff B. View Post
                    Small boxes introduce nonlinearities in driver excursion; a form of distortion. So, compared to a small sealed box, free air is more linear.
                    But it has to be very small and a lot of excursion.

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                    • #25
                      Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                      The vifa 180w, to me, seems like a much better driver and it's about 1/4 the price
                      I feel like you guys are giving Xmax too much importance.

                      I am looking at your Vifa 180W and this C-Quenze driver distortion measuremenet results, and C-Quenze is better. They are close but C-Quenze is better overall, 3rd, 4th and 5th are lower than Vifa. Both in HD and IMD side. Its IMD 3rd order is particularly good.

                      What good is high Xmax if it doesn't translate into better distortion? These are midwoofer drivers.

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                      • #26
                        Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                        Originally posted by DDF View Post
                        But it has to be very small and a lot of excursion.
                        Agreed. I was just dealing with absolutes. In most cases it's not enough to notice, that's for sure.
                        Click here for Jeff Bagby's Loudspeaker Design Software

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                        • #27
                          Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                          Originally posted by feyz View Post
                          I feel like you guys are giving Xmax too much importance.

                          I am looking at your Vifa 180W and this C-Quenze driver distortion measuremenet results, and C-Quenze is better. They are close but C-Quenze is better overall, 3rd, 4th and 5th are lower than Vifa. Both in HD and IMD side. Its IMD 3rd order is particularly good.

                          What good is high Xmax if it doesn't translate into better distortion? These are midwoofer drivers.
                          Fair point. But, let me ask you this:
                          If the distortion is close, as you say, then would you not consider the xmax a tiebreaker? Is the lessened distortion of the 18h enough to outweigh the fact that it has lower xmax?

                          Xmax does indeed translate in to better distortion. The klippel provides the data as a 10% overall distortion value so it's accounted for in the results. It may be the differnce in low end distortion vs. high end.


                          Just some things to consider.
                          ErinsAudioCorner.com

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                            Originally posted by ErinH View Post
                            Fair point. But, let me ask you this:
                            If the distortion is close, as you say, then would you not consider the xmax a tiebreaker? Is the lessened distortion of the 18h enough to outweigh the fact that it has lower xmax?

                            Xmax does indeed translate in to better distortion. The klippel provides the data as a 10% overall distortion value so it's accounted for in the results. It may be the differnce in low end distortion vs. high end.


                            Just some things to consider.
                            Ultimately, wouldn't the final arbiter be your ears in the installation? What if under normal use, with subs underneath, xmax never factors in, and all you're left with is the linear performance that feyz points out is superior.

                            Maybe that's why winslow says he's been enjoying them so much, despite what their xmax might be.
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                            • #29
                              Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                              Or, it could just be that Xmax is over-rated in any event. As this klippel testing is showing us time and time again, almost all manufacturers over-rate their Xmax - sometimes dramatically.

                              This is leading me to believe one of two things: that we can't hear low end distortion very well, or we are used to crappy bass. My tendency is leaning towards the latter what with all the 4-6" 40Hz systems we all build.
                              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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                              • #30
                                Re: AudioTechnology 18H Klippel Test

                                Actually, learning to appreciate clean bass at meaningful volumes is a damn good reason to play with car audio. I noticed a huge improvement in bass distortion when I went from the Dayton SDVC 8" to the OEM Infinity CMMD 10" system - level matched. Measurements backed that subjective impression, as well.

                                I would like to see results for the new 8" Dayton DVC. I have an extra if you want it. I have my doubts on the linearity of that driver at 7mm.
                                Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

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