Official Iron Speaker Thread

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

http://jatlas.bandcamp.com/

This music could be very good for testing, although it does often reach well below this driver's low end extension. Worth taking a look either way

Thanks! We will open a thread about music when we get closer. Lets keep thin one on topic around rules and details of what is above.

[moron#99]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I think ti should be clearly spelled out if the $200 is per project or $100 per speaker. My next project is an outdoors portable. It is mono by default.

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I think ti should be clearly spelled out if the $200 is per project or $100 per speaker. My next project is an outdoors portable. It is mono by default.

You have asked more questions about/made statements the rules than anyone else. Are you going to participate? At this point it just seems like semantics for you. It has been pretty clear since the get-go this will be a PAIR of speakers thing.

I respect that you, as well as others may not be interested, or may conduct this is a different fashion but this is where we are going with it and since the response has been far more positive (by the entry's!) than negative we will stick with it and have some fun!

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

Two other questions, actually that I don't believe have been addressed yet:

Will there be a fixed input voltage? I'm guessing we'll just play them so they are about the same volume, I'm sure some will use two of the iron driver per speaker.

And the stands are fixed so, we have to take into account the listeners height. Will we have any information about the listeners' locations and room dimensions, or do we just have to do our best? Obviously no EQing is allowed, so it would just have a constant impact across the board, but there could be slight variations on the impact it has on different designs.

All the speakers will suffer the same. There are various height seats in roman's shop... from an upside-down pail, to a high work-table stool. Hearing several of my own, and designs that I am familiar with in there I will say that the acoustic space is very diffuse but large and all types of speakers seem to bode well in it.

I've never even designed my own speakers before but I might try and make this my first shot just to make it that much more exciting. I'll probably have to do it without too much help from the board though, considering it's a competition. Can I get some clarification on that btw? Was it that we really shouldn't post anything about our designs on the forum anywhere? Even if I don't build a pair, I'll probably come be a judge and help out and maybe build the winning design, this does look like a really nice driver.

Team up with someone!

[moron#99]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

You have asked more questions about/made statements the rules than anyone else. Are you going to participate? At this point it just seems like semantics for you. It has been pretty clear since the get-go this will be a PAIR of speakers thing.

I respect that you, as well as others may not be interested, or may conduct this is a different fashion but this is where we are going with it and since the response has been far more positive (by the entry's!) than negative we will stick with it and have some fun!

I am strongly thinking about it.
I have a specific design that I will be building for an actual real world purpose. The peerless would work as well as any other driver. On the one hand, I would like to send it so that your judges can compare a linkwitz transform + bessel HP to a vented design using the same driver. It will be very interesting to see the side by side comparison. One will have longer excursions and greater distortion. The other will have a high F3 and greater SPL potential. It's a comparison I would be very interested in hearing what informed & experienced judges say.

On the other hand, it is being built for a reason and if fitting the rules defeats that reason then I won't be shipping it up.

[rpb]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

The qty pricing is what will be applied. NOT sale price, whole sale price etc. However if you by them and get a qty discount that is the price that will be used.




See the rules above. The speaker has to take what it is given. The calibration standards are above. You will have to do you own destructive testing. ;) We are not out to see how loud they play, but how they perform at moderate (80-85dB w/music) levels as would be used in a real world system, for real world use. Loud is easy, accurate is not.

The calibratin is done SPL meter between the speakers, about 1.5m away.

I thought from your comment about a torture track, that levels above 85 dB were going to be used. Thanks for clearing this up. Playing at 85 dB should not be a problem at all.

[MagicO309d]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

Is PE's "Special Price" shown for certain non-buyout drivers considered valid for use in the competition's $200 BOM tally? There is no other pricing other than retail provided by PE for these drivers.

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I am strongly thinking about it.
I have a specific design that I will be building for an actual real world purpose. The peerless would work as well as any other driver. On the one hand, I would like to send it so that your judges can compare a linkwitz transform + bessel HP to a vented design using the same driver. It will be very interesting to see the side by side comparison. One will have longer excursions and greater distortion. The other will have a high F3 and greater SPL potential. It's a comparison I would be very interested in hearing what informed & experienced judges say.

On the other hand, it is being built for a reason and if fitting the rules defeats that reason then I won't be shipping it up.

Certainly fair enough! I would love to hear either. It is not often we get so many DIY designs in one place, let alone WITH measurements!

I thought from your comment about a torture track, that levels above 85 dB were going to be used. Thanks for clearing this up. Playing at 85 dB should not be a problem at all.

85dB is the average music level. If you look at the DIY NY 2011 thread some speakers peaked into the mid 90's. The torture track use was PVC IV off the Blue Man Group's "Audio". The year before it as Fanfare for the common man. Both years there was no damage, though some of the smallest speakers (4" woofers etc." were the only ones showing hits of audible overdrive.

...There is ALWAYS a hand on the remote. ;)

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

Is PE's "Special Price" shown for certain non-buyout drivers considered valid for use in the competition's $200 BOM tally?

Catalog prices is what will be used. No sale prices, special prices etc. If you get them for a sale or special price, it just saves you some $$$ but the catalog price will still be used.

[mzisserson]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I have gotten a couple of PM's and want to clarify around active entry's.

The amplifier does count toward the price cap, but does not have to be purchased from PE. Originally, there was discussion around it having to be, but to open it up a little for those on the fence, you can source your amp anywhere, similar to the crossover rules.

[r-carpenter]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I've build my test box already.
I think Jeff kindly agreed to mix up the CD.

[jeff_free69]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I'd be happy to do the CD mix of 5 short cuts.

Interesting quandry though, if you're going to say that the contestants should not know ahead of time what's going to be on it.

On a general level I guess we can all discuss the spread across genres.

But as far as specific tracks, who's coming as an observer and has some suggestions?

We can use the previous 2 DIY's CD's as a starting reference point. ("too much of this ", "not enough of that" , "this track was great" , "that one, not so much")

Let me know you're thoughts.

[michiganpat]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

Acoustic Research 4x



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someone stole your tweets and replace them with chinese crap! ;)

[rpb]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I'd be happy to do the CD mix of 5 short cuts.

Interesting quandry though, if you're going to say that the contestants should not know ahead of time what's going to be on it.

On a general level I guess we can all discuss the spread across genres.

But as far as specific tracks, who's coming as an observer and has some suggestions?

We can use the previous 2 DIY's CD's as a starting reference point. ("too much of this ", "not enough of that" , "this track was great" , "that one, not so much")

Let me know you're thoughts.

I don't care what's on the disc, but it would be good to nail down the maximum loudness that a CD will be played. I have a Stereophile test CD with pink noise. If I play it at 70 dB on my speaker, and leave the volume knob alone, then I know how loud the test tracks are going to be played. I can try every torture track I have before finalizing the design. I would like an accurate reference. What are you using for the pink noise source?

If the volume is to be left the same for each speaker demo, the level for each track needs to make sense. Dianna Krall at 85 dB would not sound natural, and Fleetwood Mac at 75 dB wouldn't be loud enough.

[jeff_free69]

Re: Official Iron Speaker Thread

I don't care what's on the disc, but it would be good to nail down the maximum loudness that a CD will be played. I have a Stereophile test CD with pink noise. If I play it at 70 dB on my speaker, and leave the volume knob alone, then I know how loud the test tracks are going to be played. I can try every torture track I have before finalizing the design. I would like an accurate reference. What are you using for the pink noise source?

If the volume is to be left the same for each speaker demo, the level for each track needs to make sense. Dianna Krall at 85 dB would not sound natural, and Fleetwood Mac at 75 dB wouldn't be loud enough.

At last year's DIY the first track was -20dbfs of noise, and we calibrated each speaker to the same level. Phil manned the meter which I think was set to around 78 db at his listening position (gotta check that) Once the music played I don't think we measured an RMS of much more than 90ish. just keep in mind that this is a HUGE room; I'd estimate that the listening position starts at around 10-12 feet with people spread out a bit beyond that.

As far as track balancing, I can do that. I'll spend some time sequencing and crossfading into a more palatable, musical experience. I prefer to leave them as unadulterated as possible, but yes if there happens to be something modern (loud) chosen for the mix, it would have to lowered by several dB to avoid killing your ears.