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A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

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  • A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

    I got a MiniDSP back in February, since I wanted to try building an OB speaker (the thread is somewhere else, I haven't worked at all on it... yet).

    Anyway, since the DSP was collecting dust, I thought it'd be nice if I could start learning how to use it. So, I changed my main speakers and placed a pair of mini-monitors (using the Dayton Neo 4" woofer and a Monitor Audio 1" C-CAM gold anodized tweeter) and a pretty big Tempest 15" sealed sub (remember those? Mine is still going strong after all these years!).

    I approached the MiniDSP with curiosity. I did know it was a 2 way x-over with filter capabilities. So I wasn't exactly sure as to what to expect.

    The bottom line is - I'm sold. Although going back to passives is a given, the stuff I'll keep will definitely be active, or at least an active-passive hybrid.

    Going to the MiniDSP is like breaking free of many things I hated about passive crossover design. I'll try to talk about these issues related to my experience.

    1) EQ'ing the input. I *loved* this option. I've always wondered about power response shapes. By EQ'ing the input, I can at least give myself an idea about how power response, on axis frequency response and "house" curves sound, and more importantly, sound in my room. I can tweak them in an instant, by activating different EQ profiles. I can zero in on whatever frequency is bothering me and then double check the results with an MLS. Now, instead of tweaking components or bringing my old EQ from my attic I can make changes on the fly and learn immediately. Amazing.

    2) Filters. Oh man. I know why I hated subs now - their onboard filters suck. I set up an 80Hz L-R 2nd order on my speakers and sub - nice, but what about 70? Done. 60? Done. 120? Done, done, done. Quick, easy, painless. No more guess work. No more fiddling with a "subwoofer frequency" pot, which is pretty similar to being a blind guy piloting an airplane with a guy yelling you "higher! no, lower! higher!". Once again, I can't imagine integrating a sub without a MiniDSP now. Which brings me to...

    3) Adjustable delays. So... how useful can a phase switch be? Turns out, not much. I just measured the distance between the sub and my mains, entered it into the delay field, and my RTA showed a perfectly summed signal. I inverted polarity and got a slight null. Simple, fast, and useful.

    4) Channel EQ. Once I got my sub set up, I noticed room modes around 50 Hz or so, and a loss of power at 20 Hz. So dialed in some peak EQ at -6 dB and boost on the extreme lower end. I was rewarded with the flattest bass I've measured in my room. I saved my configuration, unplugged my laptop and enjoyed the music.

    All this from a simple, small, unassuming black box.

    I'm getting a second one (If) when I finally build my OB speakers, I want a separate filter for the woofer, subwoofer and mids / highs, so I'll need two. And they'll probably be the best $250 I've ever spent on a crossover. FAR better than any passive elements I could get for that price, that's for sure!
    Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
    2-2.5 Way:
    Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
    3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

  • #2
    Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

    what's the life span on these minidsp? I know passive xo can last decades without issue.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

      Seems like an odd question. Kind of like asking what's the life span on a cd player, amp, receiver, calculator etc.

      Originally posted by mintos View Post
      what's the life span on these minidsp? I know passive xo can last decades without issue.
      I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
      OS MTMs http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=220388
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      Econowave and Audio Nirvana AN10 fullrange http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=216841
      Imperial Russian Stouts http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=1#post1840444
      LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

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      • #4
        Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

        Nice review Fjhuerta!
        Tim

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

          Originally posted by fastbike1 View Post
          Seems like an odd question. Kind of like asking what's the life span on a cd player, amp, receiver, calculator etc.
          these have moving parts, mini DSP does not. :D
          forever or till it dies from unknown cause?
          http://www.diy-ny.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

            You've got it! So much better than fiddling with passive parts that would take literally 100's of hours and saintly patience to even come close to optimizing.

            Just the other night, I was working up a prototype for a largish near-field studio monitor. The bass was just not sitting right. A few clicks and all of a sudden, what had been "tubby" undefined bass, was clear and articulate. I can't help but think of how many DIYers never get the best possible results out of their designs by sticking with passive. I know active set-ups are not practical for modest builds, but anyone attempting to make a reference level product really ought to be active.

            Not using minidsp myself yet, but glad to see some more positive info on here after the debacle of that other thread...

            Greg

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

              Also - did I forget to mention how transparent the Miidsp is? I think I did. Never did I felt the unit took away anuthing from the signal. I'm sort of sold on the whole "minimalist" concept, but after listening to my system without DSP for years, I don't miss it at all now. If anything, it took my listening enjoyment to a whole new level. I cant wait to build my Dipoles now - although I need an extra miniDSP.
              Line Array: IDS-25 Clone, FE-83.
              2-2.5 Way:
              Zaph Audio's winning entry: ZA5+SB29. - Microliths: RS125+RS28. - Small Bangs: TB W4-1658SB+SEAS 27TBFC/G. - Monoliths: Peerless 830884+SEAS 27TBFC/G.
              3-3.5 Way:Miniliths: SEAS P21/CA21REX+Neo8 PDR+Neo3 PDR. - Megaliths: 2xDayton RS270+2xT-B W4-1337SB+SB29. - ZDT3.5 +: 2xDayton RS180+Dayton RS52+Vifa DQ25. Reflexos: OB 4xDayton RS150 + Neo3 PDR.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post
                1) EQ'ing the input. I *loved* this option. ... I can tweak them in an instant, by activating different EQ profiles. I can zero in on whatever frequency is bothering me and then double check the results with an MLS. Now, instead of tweaking components or bringing my old EQ from my attic I can make changes on the fly and learn immediately. Amazing.
                You just discovered the best tool in my bag Although I'm pretty simple, I just use the EQ in WinAmp or Windows Media player. But it makes it a very quick task to narrow in on a problem frequency, or see how changes in BSC would sound.
                Isn't it about time we started answering rhetorical questions?

                Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects
                Twitter: @undefinition1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                  Originally posted by fjhuerta View Post
                  Also - did I forget to mention how transparent the Miidsp is? I think I did. Never did I felt the unit took away anuthing from the signal. I'm sort of sold on the whole "minimalist" concept, but after listening to my system without DSP for years, I don't miss it at all now. If anything, it took my listening enjoyment to a whole new level. I cant wait to build my Dipoles now - although I need an extra miniDSP.

                  Cool - I'm starting to get interested too...thanks for the info

                  Are you using the digital input or the onboard A/D?
                  BEER: Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy

                  I've measured many things I cannot hear; and heard things I cannot measure...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                    Good to hear this. I'm going to be facing using active EQ and crossover on woofer in the Echelon Fortiissimo WMTM and it sounds like the minDSP is the most obvious choice.

                    I have zero experience with active, other than with a plate amp or HT reciever, so forgive the uninformed questions. I assume you bought the balanced 2x4 version and that this means 2 in, 4 out? Can you tell me how big it is? I may want to put it inside the speaker, depending on the size. I'm guessing that if kept outside the speaker, you could do both woofer channels with one 2x4 unit, but inside the speaker would really require one unit for each speaker. Once you opt for 1 in each speaker, could you actually do a 3way pair, all active, using two 2x4 units and 6 channels of amplification?
                    Dan N.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                      Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                      I assume you bought the balanced 2x4 version and that this means 2 in, 4 out? Can you tell me how big it is? I may want to put it inside the speaker, depending on the size. I'm guessing that if kept outside the speaker, you could do both woofer channels with one 2x4 unit, but inside the speaker would really require one unit for each speaker. Once you opt for 1 in each speaker, could you actually do a 3way pair, all active, using two 2x4 units and 6 channels of amplification?
                      The 2x4 is rather small, roughly 3x3 inches. It's my understanding that it can be used in any configuration up to 2 in and 4 out so yes, using it as a mono 3 way is possible, or a 4 way or a 2 way or a 2 way stereo... For 3 or 4 way stereo you would either need (2) 2x4 cards or a single 2x8 card which is considerably larger. They also make an 8 in/8 out model as well. Interestingly, IIRC, there are some limitations to the processing power and software of the larger cards compared to the small, 2x4 cards. A pair of the 2x4 cards is also cheaper to purchase than a single 2x8. I don't have any actual first hand experience with the MiniDSP but have been reading up on the products because I am considering buying it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                        Originally posted by emilime75 View Post
                        The 2x4 is rather small, roughly 3x3 inches. It's my understanding that it can be used in any configuration up to 2 in and 4 out so yes, using it as a mono 3 way is possible, or a 4 way or a 2 way or a 2 way stereo... For 3 or 4 way stereo you would either need (2) 2x4 cards or a single 2x8 card which is considerably larger. They also make an 8 in/8 out model as well. Interestingly, IIRC, there are some limitations to the processing power and software of the larger cards compared to the small, 2x4 cards. A pair of the 2x4 cards is also cheaper to purchase than a single 2x8. I don't have any actual first hand experience with the MiniDSP but have been reading up on the products because I am considering buying it.
                        The 2x8 is far more flexible than the 2x4. The 2x8 is also 24/96 while the 2x4 is 16/48. I have both. Either can be used in conjunction wih Charlie's spreadsheet.
                        John k.... Music and Design NaO dsp Dipole Loudspeakers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                          Originally posted by johnk... View Post
                          The 2x8 is far more flexible than the 2x4. The 2x8 is also 24/96 while the 2x4 is 16/48. I have both. Either can be used in conjunction wih Charlie's spreadsheet.
                          I believe that the 2x8 has been tested to have higher noise levels compared to the 2x4 (I seem to recall even admitted by the mfg) . Might be the only downside to using it vs the 2x4, however.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                            Originally posted by johnk... View Post
                            The 2x8 is far more flexible than the 2x4. The 2x8 is also 24/96 while the 2x4 is 16/48. I have both. Either can be used in conjunction wih Charlie's spreadsheet.
                            Yes, as far as routing is concerned, maybe. But a pair of 2x4 boards still allow a 4 way stereo system, at less cost than the single 2x8. Also, since some of the processing power on a 2x8 board is spent for the increased routing capabilities, a few small sacrifices have been made in respect to EQ filtering limitations as compared to the 2x4. They're also both 24/96.


                            Originally posted by jtatz View Post
                            I believe that the 2x8 has been tested to have higher noise levels compared to the 2x4 (I seem to recall even admitted by the mfg) . Might be the only downside to using it vs the 2x4, however.
                            There's also that.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A little review about the MiniDSP balanced kit...

                              They just need to make a 2x9 so you can do a pair of 3 way actives...

                              I'm using a pair of 2x4s. (actually 3, for active 3way LCRs)

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