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  • New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

    I'm in the process of finalizing the finish on the Echelons (it still had a couple issues to deal with) and will also be trying another version of the Tranducer Labs N26C ceramic tweeter. The one I'm currently using is the "A" version. They have a "G" version now that uses a fiberglass voicecoil, which the TL guys say allows the response to rise slightly more in the top octave, about 1.2 db which they believe may work even better in a waveguide. They say the "G" model has a more lively top end and is a
    bit more dynamic as eddy currents are at a minimal in the magnet gap due to the fiberglass voice coil. However, the "A" type is softer sounding as there is some electrical dampening. The "A" version has an aluminum VC.

    I hope to get a pair of the G's shortly to compare to the "A"s.

    Here is more info they sent me on design philosophy and upcoming products:

    "We do not believe in high loss diaphragms/soft domes. All our offerings will be hard dome type. Piston movement is necessary for accurate reproduction of the input signal. Although suppressing the resonance peak of the piston diaphragm can be a challenge, the results are more rewarding than settling for a high loss diaphragm.

    We also plan to offer some products by the end of 2013 with our new motor patent. This means no steel in the center of the voice coil. The magnet energy is applied from the outside of the voice coil. As you can imagine, lower electrical distortion(no metal inside), lower acoustic distortion(as the dome is completely open to air behind it) and lower inductance.

    By the end of this year we should have the following in production:

    N26CS- Alumina dome/ smaller face plate
    N26CR- Alumina dome/round face plate
    N28BE- pure Beryllium dome
    N28BER- Pure beryllium dome/ round face plate
    N26K- Kevlar fiber dome
    N26KR- Kevlar fiber dome/round face plate
    N26CF- Carbon fiber dome
    N26CF- Carbon fiber dome/round face plate
    N27Si- Silicon carbide dome
    N27SiR- Silicon carbide dome/ round face plate
    N27B4- Boron carbide dome
    N27B4- Boron carbide dome/round face plate
    N26MG- Pure Magnesium dome
    N26MGR- Pure Magnesium dome/round face plate"
    Dan N.

  • #2
    Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

    Very interesting.

    We've been listening to the N26C in the Byzy Mini (Aurora) for a couple hours now. It is definitely a different animal than most domes I've come across. And while it won't cross quite as low as the RS28 (natural roll off is earlier), we're still able to push it to 1300Hz in the guide without issue. A couple more tweaks on the tweeter XO, and it should be good to go.

    It offers more "snap" and realism, especially to those transient events, like snare hits and string plucks, than the RS28F does. And the response is remarkably smooth. As good as these sound, I'm really curious about how their improved versions sound.

    Here's a shot with no smoothing, raw and with the XO applied. That's one smooth tweeter/guide combo.


    Attached Files
    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

      I really like what these guys are doing... it'd be cool if they also came out with a magnesium diaphragm compression tweeter.
      :blues: Flat frequency response, a smooth sound power response free of resonance, careful driver-integration, and high dynamic range both upward and downward :blues:

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

        Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
        I'm in the process of finalizing the finish on the Echelons (it still had a couple issues to deal with) and will also be trying another version of the Tranducer Labs N26C ceramic tweeter. The one I'm currently using is the "A" version. They have a "G" version now that uses a fiberglass voicecoil, which the TL guys say allows the response to rise slightly more in the top octave, about 1.2 db which they believe may work even better in a waveguide. They say the "G" model has a more lively top end and is a
        bit more dynamic as eddy currents are at a minimal in the magnet gap due to the fiberglass voice coil. However, the "A" type is softer sounding as there is some electrical dampening. The "A" version has an aluminum VC.

        I hope to get a pair of the G's shortly to compare to the "A"s.

        Here is more info they sent me on design philosophy and upcoming products:

        "We do not believe in high loss diaphragms/soft domes. All our offerings will be hard dome type. Piston movement is necessary for accurate reproduction of the input signal. Although suppressing the resonance peak of the piston diaphragm can be a challenge, the results are more rewarding than settling for a high loss diaphragm.

        We also plan to offer some products by the end of 2013 with our new motor patent. This means no steel in the center of the voice coil. The magnet energy is applied from the outside of the voice coil. As you can imagine, lower electrical distortion(no metal inside), lower acoustic distortion(as the dome is completely open to air behind it) and lower inductance.

        By the end of this year we should have the following in production:

        N26CS- Alumina dome/ smaller face plate
        N26CR- Alumina dome/round face plate
        N28BE- pure Beryllium dome
        N28BER- Pure beryllium dome/ round face plate
        N26K- Kevlar fiber dome
        N26KR- Kevlar fiber dome/round face plate
        N26CF- Carbon fiber dome
        N26CF- Carbon fiber dome/round face plate
        N27Si- Silicon carbide dome
        N27SiR- Silicon carbide dome/ round face plate
        N27B4- Boron carbide dome
        N27B4- Boron carbide dome/round face plate
        N26MG- Pure Magnesium dome
        N26MGR- Pure Magnesium dome/round face plate"
        They showed up Friday. Looking forward to running them through some guides. I made up a phase plug for an accuton tweeter I'm working with and am having good results with it. It pulled the 12kHz dip out while also boosting the 8 kHz range.

        Dave
        http://www.pellegreneacoustics.com/

        Trench Seam Method for MDF
        https://picasaweb.google.com/101632266659473725850

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

          I've had a feeling all along that a phase plug may be a good solution for at least some domes. I never got around to trying it. Good to hear you're experimenting along that line.

          I'm looking forward to how the N26C "G" version tests as compared the the"A".
          Dan N.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

            Are these available direct from TL?

            It offers more "snap" and realism, especially to those transient events, like snare hits and string plucks, than the RS28F does. And the response is remarkably smooth. As good as these sound, I'm really curious about how their improved versions sound.
            Do you find any drawbacks to this such as a clinical / hard sound?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

              Originally posted by frangus View Post
              Are these available direct from TL?
              I don't think they're offering them directly to the DIY market in any quantity. Meniscus has a decent deal on them at $137, or you can spend $290/pr at e-speakers . . .

              Originally posted by frangus View Post
              Do you find any drawbacks to this such as a clinical / hard sound?
              I wouldn't say "hard" but more real, more live.

              Some comments we were getting at AK Fest on the RS28F described the sound as "relaxed" which I find to be quite appropriate. The 28F is a smooth tweeter, with low distortion by any measure you care to use. When I had it in the living room for a couple months after the Chicago DIY, I found myself listening for hours. It's a very pleasant, easy listening tweeter.

              But when we finally got the T-labs unit adapted to the existing guide with a decent crossover, the differences were immediately obvious. There's simply additional information for the ears to process. Not every track would be as obvious, but we purposely chose certain tracks that when compared to other top quality tweeters we regularly get to hear (like the Beyma TPL150H), there was just something missing with the RS28F by comparison. For example, tracks with pronounced string plucks like Treetop Flyer by Graham Nash, or Keith Don't Go by Nils Lofgren, sounded a little less lively on the 28F than the Beyma, and now the N26C. The N26C sound much more like the Beyma than the 28F is able to render, with a real percussive quality that is simply not there with the fabric dome 28F.

              We'll be doing some more listening this week with a couple XO variants I want to try. Adapting the guide for the tweeter introduced a bit of peaking between 1 and 2KHz, as you can see in the raw plot, which we can hear in the current XO version. So I've run a couple of sims that bring that bump down a few more dB. So far, that's the only thing we've come across that we don't like in what we hear. And that looks like it's easily corrected in the XO. Otherwise, this is a top tier tweeter, and even at $137, a good price compared to Scan Illuminator or SEAS Millenium. The only other dome that I've heard, that has some of that character, is the Morel MDT33.

              In other words, the N26C is simply an excellent dome tweeter.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                I just found out there is also a "T" version of the N26C, which has a titanium voicecoil. It falls in between the "A" and "G" versions in terms of response.

                I strongly recommend you contact Mark at Meniscus with regards to these tweeters. They will take very good care of you.
                Dan N.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                  Pete, does the RS28A have the same relaxed presentation as the F or is it more comparable to the TL tweeter?

                  "It is only Scrooge McDuck and others with a personality disorder who have money as their goal"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                    Originally posted by jonasz View Post
                    Pete, does the RS28A have the same relaxed presentation as the F or is it more comparable to the TL tweeter?

                    I would say that the RS28A and F are more similar than different. I had a hard time telling the difference with them when each XO was set up to produce the same response in the guide. The RS28 just doesn't grab your attention the same way the T-labs tweeter seems to. I've no doubt that some would prefer the more relaxed presentation, like the comments we got up in Michigan. I still think they're very nice tweeters. But I'm convinced that the TL tweeter is even better. Worth the extra price? Maybe not to some.
                    R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                    Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                    95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                    "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                      Originally posted by dlneubec View Post
                      I just found out there is also a "T" version of the N26C, which has a titanium voicecoil. It falls in between the "A" and "G" versions in terms of response.

                      I strongly recommend you contact Mark at Meniscus with regards to these tweeters. They will take very good care of you.
                      I was under the impression that the voice coil formers were what varied in material, not the voice coil wire itself.

                      The Kevlar weave dome has my interest...
                      Later,
                      Wolf
                      "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                      "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                      "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                      "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                      *InDIYana event website*

                      Photobucket pages:
                      https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                      My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                        Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                        I was under the impression that the voice coil formers were what varied in material, not the voice coil wire itself.

                        The Kevlar weave dome has my interest...
                        Later,
                        Wolf
                        I believe you are correct, the former is from different material, not the wire itself. I should have been more specific.
                        Dan N.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                          What you give up in a high loss diaphram, you gain in crossover complexity and expense to suppress peaks. Also, The sub-harmonics (espically the 1st) usually heavily influences the sound which ultimately drives up odd order distortions... Or so a driver designer once told me...

                          Either way they look pretty cool. The new motor patent looks to be very promising. Their is no denying their response is very desirable in most circumstances (get em' on a baffle in-room and it may look *slightly*different). Also, lets not forget they are $$$ tweeters. Not quite uber, but at the kind of price they carry, I expect the performance people are getting.

                          It is nice to see a company really focusing in on what I feel is the toughest driver to get right...
                          .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: New drivers coming from Transducer Labs

                            The N27B4 round face with the Boron Carbide sounds interesting if the price is the same. That would make one very stiff dome and still remain light weight.
                            Now if they could make a woofer out of the same stuff that would be SWEET.
                            Thanks ,
                            JB

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