Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

    So I have been fortunate enough to get my hands on two of these:
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...01&FTR=299-101

    sad I couldn't get four but they are the same woofer from these:
    http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-KL-650.../dp/B004R1FIUA

    $1500 each?! The whole system is $13k!
    http://www.klipsch.com/thx-ultra2-home-theater-system

    Anyway, against all odds the deal of the day today is this:
    http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=279-106

    That's the horn for 25 bucks!

    I want to build one of these things, but I'm literally brand new to crossover design (I just got excel yesterday and have been playing around in Jeff Bagby's xo design software). I can get the dimensions to approximate a box size. Unfortunately I can't find an impedance or response graph for either one of these and have no measuring equipment, so I guess I'll have to figure that out somehow. They do recommend a crossover @ 4kHz 12dB/octave. Anyway, I just thought it was interesting and figured you all might have some input.

    :D

  • #2
    Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

    Let's start with driver selection. There are no spec sheets for the cone driver, but comments seem to indicate it needs a 1500-2000Hz crossover, yet the horn you picked has an Fs of 2800 and a 4KHz XO recommendation. Your only chance is if the driver's actually fine to 4K, not likely in an inexpenseive metal cone driver. The cone technology has breakup modes that have to be suppressed, and that means a horn (if that's what you want) that's good to 1KHz.

    Then there's all the data you are just learning about, which is all required for a modern customer XO design... You've got an uphill battle here, with a loong learning curve and some $$$ in measurement gear to create your own data.

    That's why we recommend proven design so much... but you'd have to find someone using those drivers who;s willing to share.

    Have fun,
    Frank

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

      This is the Klipsch ad for the system:
      http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...pdf?1288248046

      It says the woofer cone is "cerametallic" but the ones I have definitely seem more like poly to me. Maybe they are ripoffs, they were sold as buyouts but I have no idea for how much. It also says the crossover is at 1400Hz. PE claims these are the same drivers from "a famous maker's" (Klipsch) THX Ultra2 system. If they are, Klipsch managed to pull it off. I did notice the high Fs of the horn. It may be an uphill battle, but I'm up for the challenge. You're right about the measurements though. I will need to find someone to help me with that.

      Maybe they have some sort of insane crossover work?? There isn't really a way to make a horn like that play below Fs is there? (I sound like an idiot, don't I?):o

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

        Originally posted by monoiz15 View Post
        There isn't really a way to make a horn like that play below Fs is there? (I sound like an idiot, don't I?):o
        No, not an idiot. No problem playing that CD/horn combo down to 1400hz. People use 6.5" woofer below Fs all the time without issue. No problem with this type of driver either, provided it's done right and the driver doesn't have excursion issues (just like the 6.5" woofer). The reason for the other comment is the prevalence of use of dome tweeters. I don't have a good understanding of driver behaviour like some guys here, so I'm not sure why, but in my experience domes make an awful resonating/ringing sound at Fs. So that has to be well into the stop band or you'll hear it.

        I just posted a design in the Project forum that uses a much smaller CD/horn. Fs was like 2600hz or something. I cross it at 3khz. Sounds great.

        EDIT - I wouldn't pay much attention to what PE says is the suitable operating range of their buyouts. They say 10khz for that woofer. Ya right. Hahaha.
        Last edited by ryanbouma; 06-27-2012, 03:46 PM. Reason: added info
        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

          If you haven't bought those yet, I can get you measurements of any of these horns: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...aveguides.html

          With this CD: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/drivers...s/dna-150.html

          Then if someone has a measurement of that woofer, you could be good to go. That might work better with just 1 woofer per speaker also. Chances are though, someone will do what you're doing and come up with something.
          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

            I wondered about the size of the tweeter horn- 10 inch x 7 inch. Not knowing much about horns and wave guides, my initial impression was that was a "very large" opening for a tweeter for 2.8 Kc cutoff. ! PE can just simply run a quick measurement to give customers something to go on.
            Speaking of the 6.5-inch Klipsch buyout woofer, here is the link in case anyone missed that. And PE ran a couple of $ 15.00 specials on that woofer before.

            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ing-First-Test

            BTW, conventional woofer+ horn tweeter can sound very musical. I have Hsu Research HB-1s. The tweeter opening is 3.5" x 4.5" and crossover is around 2000 Hz.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

              Originally posted by monoiz15 View Post
              This is the Klipsch ad for the system:
              http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/...pdf?1288248046

              It says the woofer cone is "cerametallic" but the ones I have definitely seem more like poly to me. Maybe they are ripoffs, they were sold as buyouts but I have no idea for how much. It also says the crossover is at 1400Hz. PE claims these are the same drivers from "a famous maker's" (Klipsch) THX Ultra2 system. If they are, Klipsch managed to pull it off. I did notice the high Fs of the horn. It may be an uphill battle, but I'm up for the challenge. You're right about the measurements though. I will need to find someone to help me with that.

              Maybe they have some sort of insane crossover work?? There isn't really a way to make a horn like that play below Fs is there? (I sound like an idiot, don't I?):o


              No, you're not an idiot. While Klipsch is a well-known brand and has garnered respect, please do not believe that hyperbole that I saw in that "ad" and what most other OEM's spout about their products. It's aimed at an average consumer; who believes it because they understand nothing about how a speaker actually works and the marketing department takes advantage of that. I learned a lot from my tenure at an old-fashioned mom/pop audio store, and rarely did the marketing yak-yak match up to the listening performance/measurements and expectations. Pretty good presentation, though. I've seen some efforts by the knowledgeable gents here that can do what you describe with a horn, but my smarts come from working behind the counter all those years. The "frequency range/response" numbers that are published in a driver's spec list are not the actual range that it will reproduce. Most metal cone or semi-metallic cone drivers have a break-up area that needs to be dealt with, something the freq. response claims/specs do not reveal. If it's not crossed properly and at the right frequency, you'll have something that is quite unpleasant to listen to. If you or a kind person could generate some measurements for those drivers, or find some some frequency and impedance files, you have a better chance at getting them to blend well and play nice with each other. Holy c-r-a-p, $13,000 for the set and $1500 for the one in the link? Nice to know factory hype is still alive and well. One thing about Klipsch is they had better-than-other-commercial-brands cabinet construction.


              John A.
              "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
              Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
              Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
              Pioneer TX-9500 II
              Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
              Statement Monitors
              Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
              Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
              Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                Let's start with driver selection. There are no spec sheets for the cone driver
                Actually Zaph Audio tested the 299-101 drivers and the specs are posted on his website after someone asked him to and furnished one to him for this . It's in the misc. or blog sections

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                  Someone is working on getting measurements ofr these horns. Out of courtesy I won't say who but it should be soon. I would definitly be interested in making a clone of the THX mains w/ the buyout woofers.

                  Hope this helps.
                  Thanks,
                  Aaron

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                    I have two hitting my doorstep tomorrow. I should be able to get a preliminary measurement posted by Friday night.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                      Looking good for some measurements! You should be able to put together something nice with this help. I'll be watching and anticipating the end result here. Good luck.


                      John A.
                      "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
                      Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
                      Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
                      Pioneer TX-9500 II
                      Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
                      Statement Monitors
                      Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
                      Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
                      Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                        Subscribed, and I'll be watching too! I've got 6 of the woofers still sitting around, and have been going back and forth on what to do with them. If someone with the right CAD software could get a good pic of one of the factory units, they could get almost exact measurements of the cabinets if they had a frame of reference. I used to do this for a tool and die shop I once worked for.
                        Last edited by DIYNut42; 06-29-2012, 01:20 AM.
                        RYAN N.

                        "Why do you have the stereo on while you're watching TV?" - "....Cause I like to party."

                        RSS390HF Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=224998
                        AviaTrix Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=230372
                        Wolf's PC Speakers Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...84#post1838384
                        Overnight Sensations MT Build - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ation-MT-build

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                          I'm so jealous I wasn't around when they had them on special for $15! I saw a thread when it was the deal of the day and it looks like they must have sold a LOT. For now, I'm gonna see if I can get one good one together, and I might be able to get my hands on a couple more woofers if I like the end result. I did find the measurements for the woofer on Zaph Audio, just go to the blog page and (ctrl+f) 299-101. The response looks good up to 3k, but it peaks about 15dB at 5kHz. I like that the it slowly drops as frequency increases, but it looks like that peak kind of screws that up if you want to cross anywhere above 2kHz unless your XO is fourth order. The specs are pretty close to what PE has except the sensitivity is 2dB less on Zaph's

                          Now all we need is that horn data. I have one on the way right now, but I will have to wait to actually start working on it until I finish my IRON pair and have money for it.

                          Their box has outer dimensions of 15" (38.1cm) H x 17" (43.2cm) W x 12.5" (31.8cm) D (w/ grille), about 52L externally, which as a guess will give you 45L after taking out the wood, driver space, stuffing, and port which looks like an F3 of about 43Hz. Sound about right? It might even be a little smaller considering the space the horn will take up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                            For just unpacking them, I'm a bit salty. They don't look at all like a $1500 system component. Let's hope they measure better. One I'll leave alone after testing, the other I'll test and then start modifying. There's leftover plastic junk on the diffusers, the throat needs sanded, etc. The motor looks pretty well thought out though... hopefully I'm right.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Klipsch THX Ultra2 main bootleg

                              Okay,quick and dirty measurement because im very tired. This was taken in a room with the computer with acasefan in it. Noise is a bit of an issue right now.
                              The unit was on its side (long side parallel to floor.) set atop another cabinet I'm measuring. I'll take better ones Tomorrow, but I think this shows some promise.


                              onaxis



                              15degrees along horizontal axis (long direction), 0 vertical



                              offaxis 15 vertical, 0 horiz

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X