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Re: Meniscus Audio sound off, Aug 25th
For starters I want to thank Mark at Meniscus Audio for opening his store to us. I really appreciate that, and also that he fed us all great burgers in addition to allowing us to raid his workplace! Thanks again Mark!! Also wanted to say that everyone that showed up was great as well. I'm not good w/ names so I won't even try to recite any, but it was a great group of guys; a lot of objective, as well as subjective opinions. I'm fairly new to DIY speakers, only been at it for about 3 years now. God willing, I'll attend as many of these as I can in the future. For me, the most difficult part of DIY is that I can't sit and audition speakers until I come to a decision for what I like best; only listen to opinions from the great guys on forums such as PETT. That's what makes get togethers like this so much fun, they eliminate that barrier. That said...
I think Marvin was being facetious w/ his statement about Paul leaving the room. While I've never met Paul, I heard his style of listening and mine are different. We pushed the limits w/ the volume at times, and the amp used was a 200w/ch Legacy; which (correct me if I'm wrong) I think is more suited for the Statements, and a bit over powering for the ER18s. I also heard Paul K is more into classical, where I tend to lean more towards rock n roll.
I think it was fairly easy to see that when I first threw the ER18s together for their 'test drive' I was a bit nervous, I thought the bass was a bit muddy and even overpowered the mids. BUT, I didn't have the port pressed in yet (just the hole cut out for it), they had no stuffing, and no bases so the port was pretty close to the floor. After I finished them, that all changed a LOT. Just for clarification, I used 16oz of polyfill (pillow stuffing) which is actually a bit lean; 17-18oz is recommended. The stuffing is evenly distributed to the best of my ability, starting at the brace below the lower woofer and going to the top of the cabinet. The port I used was the 3" that was recommended is Richard Swerdlow's write up (great write up btw Swerd!). I cut the length of the port down to 2 3/4", and it's 4" from the floor to the bottom of the port opening.
As far as the diffence between the ER18s and the Statements, In my own words here goes...
I think if you have a large enough room to place them correctly and you listen to a lot of rock n roll or heavy metal, build the Statements. If you have a smaller room and listen to more jazz or classical style music, build the ER18s. I heard a lot of guys say for longer listening sessions, the ER18s were easier to listen to. The room we did the comparison was less than ideal for the Statements. It was about 14' wide, and about 20' deep. I was told ideally you want at least 12' between the Statements, and 18" from the wall to side of the cabinets, which would be at least a 15' wide room. The listening chairs were set up about 10' (I think?) from the front of the speakers to the front row of chairs. The Statements have better bass, you can feel it more. That's not to say at all that the ER18s don't have enough bass, but the Statements just have more. IMO, the ER18s play a more realistic reproduction of the music; I felt like I was listening to the music the way the artist intended it to be listened to. The ER18s are also definitely more efficient; the ER18s were almost as loud at 28 as the Statements were at 22 on the volume.
So far it sounds like I'm totally pro ER18s, but here's where the Statements really shine IMO- If you're like me, and you're more of a "check this out" kind of guy and tend to jam the volume as loud as you can get it w/out distortion when you show your buddies your new creation, the Statements will be louder and a bit more showy to the untrained ear.
I built the Statements for my dad, and built the ER18s for myself. I can't handle the girth of the Statements, to me they're just too big. The ER18s are large, but the Statements are huge! So the question is, aside from the sizes of them, am I happy I built the ER18s? To answer that, I am completely happy w/ them. While I do tend to lean more towards rock, I'm all over w/ the music I listen to so I think the ER18s are a good fit. I might find a sub to build to compliment them, but I'm not sure yet; I need to spend more time listening to them w/out a sub first (I have'nt even heard them yet in the room they're going in, which tends to make speakers play a lot boomier). I would like to someday hear the ER18s next to the mini Statements. I think that may be a fairer comparison for both size and price (after all the full size Statements are bigger and about $200 more to build). The only downside is that the floor where I'm putting the ER18s is tile, and that brightens the highs up a lot. I'm going rug shopping soon!
All that said, if the mid was still available I might have built Ben's speakers (you'll have to say the names, I can't remember); although, those are around $1200 and I'm not sure the wife would've gone for that exta cost over the $690 the ER18s were ;). Those sounded amazing. For such a small package, the bass was incredible; and the mids and highs were superb. I love Ben's (Wolf) ear for xovers. I also think (if he's willing to help me via pm's and what-not), I would like to build something similar to the little yellow MTs he brought for my HT in my living room. If I can come close to that sound and still stay in that budget (something like $200 or $300 for the pair if I remember right), I'm all in for building a 5.1 system! Those also sounded amazing, super crisp and I was stunned by the vocals through them!!
Another pair that was really impressive were Matt's tiny, modded Realistic speakers. For use as computer speakers, who could ask for more?!
The Statement moniters sounded fantastic as well. If I had the area needed to set those up, I would build those for my HT system, but they don't agree w/ setting in my built in entertainment center. The veneer work w/ the birdseye maple, as well as the black finish on the front baffles looked incredible.
Ed's woodworking on the Auroras was great! The shaping on those was incredible, and I couldn't imagine the amount that went into them. Unfortunately, for most of the listening sessions I was outside; except for one of the last sessions but at that point I was a bit preoccupied w/ worrying because my wife was texting me, wanting her Suburban back to take the kids to a b-day party :eek:.
All in all it was a great time!! All the guys were super cool, and we had some fun listening to great speakers. The whole day for me was a riot, kind of a dude's day out. After the DIY demo I took my son and we went cruising the Grand Rapids Metro Cruise, checking out amazing cars and doing burn outs :D!
Thanks again Mark, for opening your business to us! Great guys at Meniscus, accomodating and super helpfull!
Edit: Just wanted to add that for only $140 worth of drivers and xover components, those Tritrix did a fantastic job as well. Those were the first set of speakers I ever built, I've had them done for about 2 years or so now. I've very thoroughly abused those poor speakers knowing that if I blew a driver, they're only $20 to replace! I thought that in a room w/ some of the greats, they heald their own. Yes, the others had more to offer, but if you're on a budget and want some MTM floor standers you can't go wrong w/ the Tritrix. I know I've said it before, but again, well done Curt Campbell!! Those speakers hold a special place in my heart just because they were the ones that got me into this amazing hobby!!
For starters I want to thank Mark at Meniscus Audio for opening his store to us. I really appreciate that, and also that he fed us all great burgers in addition to allowing us to raid his workplace! Thanks again Mark!! Also wanted to say that everyone that showed up was great as well. I'm not good w/ names so I won't even try to recite any, but it was a great group of guys; a lot of objective, as well as subjective opinions. I'm fairly new to DIY speakers, only been at it for about 3 years now. God willing, I'll attend as many of these as I can in the future. For me, the most difficult part of DIY is that I can't sit and audition speakers until I come to a decision for what I like best; only listen to opinions from the great guys on forums such as PETT. That's what makes get togethers like this so much fun, they eliminate that barrier. That said...
I think Marvin was being facetious w/ his statement about Paul leaving the room. While I've never met Paul, I heard his style of listening and mine are different. We pushed the limits w/ the volume at times, and the amp used was a 200w/ch Legacy; which (correct me if I'm wrong) I think is more suited for the Statements, and a bit over powering for the ER18s. I also heard Paul K is more into classical, where I tend to lean more towards rock n roll.
I think it was fairly easy to see that when I first threw the ER18s together for their 'test drive' I was a bit nervous, I thought the bass was a bit muddy and even overpowered the mids. BUT, I didn't have the port pressed in yet (just the hole cut out for it), they had no stuffing, and no bases so the port was pretty close to the floor. After I finished them, that all changed a LOT. Just for clarification, I used 16oz of polyfill (pillow stuffing) which is actually a bit lean; 17-18oz is recommended. The stuffing is evenly distributed to the best of my ability, starting at the brace below the lower woofer and going to the top of the cabinet. The port I used was the 3" that was recommended is Richard Swerdlow's write up (great write up btw Swerd!). I cut the length of the port down to 2 3/4", and it's 4" from the floor to the bottom of the port opening.
As far as the diffence between the ER18s and the Statements, In my own words here goes...
I think if you have a large enough room to place them correctly and you listen to a lot of rock n roll or heavy metal, build the Statements. If you have a smaller room and listen to more jazz or classical style music, build the ER18s. I heard a lot of guys say for longer listening sessions, the ER18s were easier to listen to. The room we did the comparison was less than ideal for the Statements. It was about 14' wide, and about 20' deep. I was told ideally you want at least 12' between the Statements, and 18" from the wall to side of the cabinets, which would be at least a 15' wide room. The listening chairs were set up about 10' (I think?) from the front of the speakers to the front row of chairs. The Statements have better bass, you can feel it more. That's not to say at all that the ER18s don't have enough bass, but the Statements just have more. IMO, the ER18s play a more realistic reproduction of the music; I felt like I was listening to the music the way the artist intended it to be listened to. The ER18s are also definitely more efficient; the ER18s were almost as loud at 28 as the Statements were at 22 on the volume.
So far it sounds like I'm totally pro ER18s, but here's where the Statements really shine IMO- If you're like me, and you're more of a "check this out" kind of guy and tend to jam the volume as loud as you can get it w/out distortion when you show your buddies your new creation, the Statements will be louder and a bit more showy to the untrained ear.
I built the Statements for my dad, and built the ER18s for myself. I can't handle the girth of the Statements, to me they're just too big. The ER18s are large, but the Statements are huge! So the question is, aside from the sizes of them, am I happy I built the ER18s? To answer that, I am completely happy w/ them. While I do tend to lean more towards rock, I'm all over w/ the music I listen to so I think the ER18s are a good fit. I might find a sub to build to compliment them, but I'm not sure yet; I need to spend more time listening to them w/out a sub first (I have'nt even heard them yet in the room they're going in, which tends to make speakers play a lot boomier). I would like to someday hear the ER18s next to the mini Statements. I think that may be a fairer comparison for both size and price (after all the full size Statements are bigger and about $200 more to build). The only downside is that the floor where I'm putting the ER18s is tile, and that brightens the highs up a lot. I'm going rug shopping soon!
All that said, if the mid was still available I might have built Ben's speakers (you'll have to say the names, I can't remember); although, those are around $1200 and I'm not sure the wife would've gone for that exta cost over the $690 the ER18s were ;). Those sounded amazing. For such a small package, the bass was incredible; and the mids and highs were superb. I love Ben's (Wolf) ear for xovers. I also think (if he's willing to help me via pm's and what-not), I would like to build something similar to the little yellow MTs he brought for my HT in my living room. If I can come close to that sound and still stay in that budget (something like $200 or $300 for the pair if I remember right), I'm all in for building a 5.1 system! Those also sounded amazing, super crisp and I was stunned by the vocals through them!!
Another pair that was really impressive were Matt's tiny, modded Realistic speakers. For use as computer speakers, who could ask for more?!
The Statement moniters sounded fantastic as well. If I had the area needed to set those up, I would build those for my HT system, but they don't agree w/ setting in my built in entertainment center. The veneer work w/ the birdseye maple, as well as the black finish on the front baffles looked incredible.
Ed's woodworking on the Auroras was great! The shaping on those was incredible, and I couldn't imagine the amount that went into them. Unfortunately, for most of the listening sessions I was outside; except for one of the last sessions but at that point I was a bit preoccupied w/ worrying because my wife was texting me, wanting her Suburban back to take the kids to a b-day party :eek:.
All in all it was a great time!! All the guys were super cool, and we had some fun listening to great speakers. The whole day for me was a riot, kind of a dude's day out. After the DIY demo I took my son and we went cruising the Grand Rapids Metro Cruise, checking out amazing cars and doing burn outs :D!
Thanks again Mark, for opening your business to us! Great guys at Meniscus, accomodating and super helpfull!
Edit: Just wanted to add that for only $140 worth of drivers and xover components, those Tritrix did a fantastic job as well. Those were the first set of speakers I ever built, I've had them done for about 2 years or so now. I've very thoroughly abused those poor speakers knowing that if I blew a driver, they're only $20 to replace! I thought that in a room w/ some of the greats, they heald their own. Yes, the others had more to offer, but if you're on a budget and want some MTM floor standers you can't go wrong w/ the Tritrix. I know I've said it before, but again, well done Curt Campbell!! Those speakers hold a special place in my heart just because they were the ones that got me into this amazing hobby!!
:D
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