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Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

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  • #16
    Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

    This speaker sports the flattest frequency response of all contenders. Smooth falling off axis response and amp friendly impedance.
    Attached Files
    http://www.diy-ny.com/

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

      Excellent work over all. Low linear and non linear distortions.
      My only issue with this system and a subjective issue at that, was laid-back mid-range. Saxophone is an aggressive and vibrant instrument and on Ron's MTM it sounded very polite. I am guessing it's the sonic character of a smaller ring radiator. I would also try to flatten and extend port output by changing it's size but that's me and room I like.
      CSD show well addresses internal standing waves. Over all, lots of attention to every detail. Meticulous design.
      Attached Files
      http://www.diy-ny.com/

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      • #18
        Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

        this is it for now. more will be posted later on today.
        now comments can be made
        http://www.diy-ny.com/

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

          Awesome design RonE.
          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

            Thanks for all the work you put into these measurements. I'm glad to see the C-Notes measured as well as I hoped they would. I'm relatively new to passive crossover design and the only thing that saves me is a technical background and good software. This is the first ported design I've ever done and has been a great learning experience.

            Click image for larger version

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            Ron
            C-Note Iron Driver Build
            The Lydias
            The Cherry π's
            The Champs - Iron Driver 2015 Entry
            My Projects Page

            The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. - Neil deGrasse Tyson
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjuGCJJUGsg

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            • #21
              Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

              Personally, I am glad to see it isn't just my samples of the Vifa ring radiators to show a rising 2nd order in the top end.
              Don't listen to me - I have not sold any $150,000 speakers.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                Attaboy, Peepaj!!!
                Wolf
                "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                *InDIYana event website*

                Photobucket pages:
                https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

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                • #23
                  Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                  Nice as usual, Ron!
                  Wolf
                  "Wolf, you shall now be known as "King of the Zip ties." -Pete00t
                  "Wolf and speakers equivalent to Picasso and 'Blue'" -dantheman
                  "He is a true ambassador for this forum and speaker DIY in general." -Ed Froste
                  "We're all in this together, so keep your stick on the ice!" - Red Green aka Steve Smith

                  *InDIYana event website*

                  Photobucket pages:
                  https://app.photobucket.com/u/wolf_teeth_speaker

                  My blog/writeups/thoughts here at PE:
                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=4102

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                    Originally posted by Wolf View Post
                    Attaboy, Peepaj!!!
                    Wolf
                    One of my favs of the day, actually.
                    .

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                      Will we be shown detailed ratings by the listeners? It would be interesting to see how people rated their own speakers. Like if monoiz15 really ranked our speaker low, that would be funny. And also to see how they were rated. For instance, if someone wanted a speaker with great bass and refused to run subs, perhaps the winner isn't the best speaker. Or if they wanted great imaging, then speaker X might be best. Etc. That and it would be interesting to see.
                      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm2...oSKdB448TTVEnQ

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                        Roman, thanks for the writeup. I think it's a very nice bonus to the designers to have a complete set of measurements along with an
                        expert analysis.

                        As usual I have some questions.

                        I recognize the linear distortion measurement with ARTA, but what package did the other distortion measurements?
                        What makes them a measurement of non-linear vs linear distortion?

                        You mention energy storage problems in several systems.
                        Is that shown by the CSD vs frequency graph or the other CSD.
                        Does this reveal only internal box resonances (inadequate filling or wall lining) or can it also show inadequte bracing?

                        regards,

                        I think I hear a difference - wow, it's amazing!" Ethan Winer: audio myths
                        "As God is my witness I'll never be without a good pair of speakers!" Scarlett O'Hara

                        High value, high quality RS150/TB28-537SH bookshelf - TARGAS NLA!
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                        My Voxel min sub Yet-another-Voxel-build

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                        • #27
                          Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                          Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
                          Will we be shown detailed ratings by the listeners? It would be interesting to see how people rated their own speakers. Like if monoiz15 really ranked our speaker low, that would be funny. And also to see how they were rated. For instance, if someone wanted a speaker with great bass and refused to run subs, perhaps the winner isn't the best speaker. Or if they wanted great imaging, then speaker X might be best. Etc. That and it would be interesting to see.
                          I think it's a good idea but not sure if Mike keeps individual scoring or it was discarded after data was imputed in spreadsheets by Mike and J.
                          But regardless, the winner is the winner based on over all scores. The budget and conditions of the listening set a framework for design and conceptual decisions.
                          Also, neither me nor Mike were judging loudspeakers. We were just mules. ;) We new what was playing at the time. Speakers, aside from last two entries were chosen randomly.
                          http://www.diy-ny.com/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                            Originally posted by donradick View Post
                            Roman, thanks for the writeup. I think it's a very nice bonus to the designers to have a complete set of measurements along with an
                            expert analysis.

                            As usual I have some questions.

                            I recognize the linear distortion measurement with ARTA, but what package did the other distortion measurements?
                            What makes them a measurement of non-linear vs linear distortion?

                            You mention energy storage problems in several systems.
                            Is that shown by the CSD vs frequency graph or the other CSD.
                            Does this reveal only internal box resonances (inadequate filling or wall lining) or can it also show inadequte bracing?

                            regards,
                            Hi Don. You are very welcome.
                            Second package was "Sound Easy". I've positioned mic closer to one driver or another in order to get cleaner distortion reading in the range I was interested.
                            Linear distortions is aberrations in frequency response of a loudspeaker. There's no VS of linear and non linear. They are just aspects of loudspeaker performance.
                            Energy storage I mentioned, shows up as a long ridges on the CSD. It means that there's a standing wave present. It is often caused by the not enough if any padding on the walls and the amount of stuffing. In extreme cases it will also show as a distortion spike.
                            Unbraced panels resonances will show up as the impedance spikes . It means that the panel resonates itself and becomes somewhat a transducer on it's own. I have only seen it in a larger sub woofer oriented commercial enclosures that were made, let's say on the cheap side. The magnitude of the low F output of the iron driver systems and the sizes pretty much prevented this issue by default. Also, the usual approach of DIYers to overbuild anything, made a difference.
                            http://www.diy-ny.com/

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                              Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
                              I think it's a good idea but not sure if Mike keeps individual scoring or it was discarded after data was imputed in spreadsheets by Mike and J.
                              But regardless, the winner is the winner based on over all scores. The budget and conditions of the listening set a framework for design and conceptual decisions.
                              The numeric data still exists in the spreadsheet so it'll eventually be posted up or sent out to competitors Mike's choice there. In the sheet the criteria used for scoring are averaged so besides being a useful way for us to get the scoring done quickly it'll hopefully be semi useful for providing the designers feedback.

                              Take it easy
                              Jay

                              Originally posted by ryanbouma View Post
                              Will we be shown detailed ratings by the listeners? It would be interesting to see how people rated their own speakers. Like if monoiz15 really ranked our speaker low, that would be funny. And also to see how they were rated. For instance, if someone wanted a speaker with great bass and refused to run subs, perhaps the winner isn't the best speaker. Or if they wanted great imaging, then speaker X might be best. Etc. That and it would be interesting to see.
                              Just a PS the reviewers sheet is anonymous so you'll not be able to tie a set of results to a specific reviewer. Each speaker has it's own sheet in excel so if the results were treated like mwaf you'd only get to see your specific detailed results and then have the option of sharing them. I'm not sure how the result data will be handled.
                              Last edited by Brewski; 09-16-2012, 10:51 PM.
                              "I like Brewski's threads, they always end up being hybrid beer/speaker threads based on the name of his newest creation." - Greywarden

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                              - Vifa BC25SG15/Fountek FW168

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                              • #30
                                Re: Tech evaluation of the Iron Driver Loudspeakers

                                Nice work Ron, very nice! It looks from the dip in the woofer output as if the system is tuned
                                to about 28 Hz, and if you check the total summed output the response is very far down, about
                                20 dB relative to 1K. The system being so far down will not have much useful output there.
                                I suggest that you bring the port tuning up to about 35 to 40 Hz and you should
                                see a significant improvement in output. The cone excursion should be low at the tuning freq
                                but it is high at about 1.4 times it, tuning higher will provide better excursion limited output
                                at both the tuning frequency and above. Still, a very nice design, looks professional also!

                                Comment

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