Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

[kevin007]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Well hopefully it doesn't take that long for me (knock on wood). I ordered two of them for the digger 8's and I am going to finish the second one. Perhaps Lee we can get together and test them out side by side one with the Dayton PR and one with the AE PR.

The Dayton PR has been giving me problems. The amount of washers hanging off the back some times runs into the brace. And there is a section of the cone of the Dayton PR that bends. The rest of the cone is good, but one section bends as it plays bass notes.

I am hoping that the AE PR that doesn't need added mass will will not have the problem with hitting the brace and that it will be of higher quality then the Dayton.

Kevin

[Leroy R]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

AE makes an excellent product, but their turnaround time is crazy long. I ordered a couple passive radiators a few years ago and it took so long for them to ship that I had forgotten I had ordered them until months later when I went to place the order again thinking I hadn't done so already. Made a fuss about how long it was taking and it still took a couple more months to get them. I think it is a one man operation and because his products are so good the demand is much higher than he can keep up with.

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Yup, AE can take a while. I've read people receive their drivers or PRs 6 months after they ordered. The Dayton is slightly smaller OD so depending on the cutout diameter may be able to dropped in temporarily. Good luck guys and let me know how it comes out.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Hmmm, that's rather disconcerting....

Well I'll give them their 2-4 weeks and if I don't hear anything I'll kick up a fuss and let you guys know.

[JCSquats]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Good luck with the PR; I ordered mine in early October. Had to email them asking for an update, and they said basically "soon". Hasn't been built yet.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Ordered the AE PR12-970 today, quoted 2-4 week build time (as expected) but that's no problem as that's pretty much the same amount of time nikbrewer has quoted to do the wood.

I'm going to be sitting there with a bunch of speakers and wires and nothing to mount them too, that's going to be a killer!

[superspeeder]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

WRT the Yung amps and HPF, I don't know anything for sure about the 300w model, but I have the 500w model without boost and it has a HPF built in. It rolls off hard below 30Hz.

I did some digging and found a forum post (AVS I think) where someone reverse engineered the 500w model's HPF and gave recommended resistor values for various frequencies. I'm on my phone right now, PITA to look it up.

Unless you test your amp to show otherwise, I would assume the 300w model features a similar HPF. This could be the reason you're not over extending your PR if the sims show otherwise.

The PE techs will answer your product questions as accurately as possible, based on the product literature provided by the manufacturer. Yung makes no mention of a HPF in the manual, therefore you were told it is not so equipped.

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Sweet Benji! You'll have a nice little setup there.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Just an FYI, I just ordered the Infinity Reference 860W from Amazon for $45.39!

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-860w-High-Performance-Subwoofer/dp/B002GHBUFY

Got my OS MTM+TM's Meniscus kits, BASH 300S amp ordered, I'm ordering the AE PR tomorrow and 'nikbrewer' is cutting me some MDF for all of the above for this! Can't wait, the Digger8/OS TM's/OS MTM's will be my first builds!

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Lowpolyjoe,
If you have a bit more space but not a lot, you can add a false floor to raise the height of the Digger8.
I don't know anything about the Technics ammo but 100W won't be very loud. My Yungs have been solid aside from some quirks with the auto on circuit. I prefer PRs over ports as I've found that even ports that modeled to have no problems often end up chuffing enough to bother me.

Jcsquats,
That's an interesting sub from RE. If I have a budget in the near future I may look into a design for that. Or sooner if I'm commissioned to do something. I prefer small subs as I dont have much space. Most of the sub talk I read revolved around 2cf and larger which is huge in my tiny house.

[JCSquats]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I don't have modeling software, so forgive my rather ignorant submission, but I felt given the price point that it was worth a mention if not a consideration.

The RE Audio RTPRO8D4. $45.00!

Electrical Q Value -Qes: 0.38
Mechanical Q Value -Qms: 4.21
Total Speaker Q Value -Qts: 0.34
Free Air Resonance -Fs: 22.8 Hz
Equivalent Compliance -Vas: 27.1 liters
One-Way, Linear Excursion -Xmax: 12 mm
Efficiency -SPL 1W/1m: 81.2 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area -Sd: 195 cm^2
DC Resistance -Re: 3.2 ohm
Nominal Impedance -Znom: Dual 4 ohm
Thermal Power Handling -Pe: 195 W
Force Factor -Bl: 15.4Electrical Q Value -Qes: 0.38
Mechanical Q Value -Qms: 4.21
Total Speaker Q Value -Qts: 0.34
Free Air Resonance -Fs: 22.8 Hz
Equivalent Compliance -Vas: 27.1 liters
One-Way, Linear Excursion -Xmax: 12 mm
Efficiency -SPL 1W/1m: 81.2 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area -Sd: 195 cm^2
DC Resistance -Re: 3.2 ohm
Nominal Impedance -Znom: Dual 4 ohm
Thermal Power Handling -Pe: 195 W
Force Factor -Bl: 15.4

Could this be a contender for a heavy-mass PR'd small enclosure as well? Heck, with a sealed enclosure this will F3 into the high 30s.

[lowpolyjoe]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I haven't been able to get a hold of Tom either. Hopefully he gets a chance to catch up with demand soon.

lowpolyjoe,

Yes, small volume with low tuning results in very long vented alignments. This is then exacerbated by long excursion drivers that need a larger diameter needing yet more port length.
One of the primary goals of my design was a compact sub that could hit the low 20s, along with low cost. There are plenty of large subs that can hit low frequencies and plenty of expensive subs that can also, but none I could find in either the commercial or DIY arenas.
You could certainly use extra volume in a ported alignment for the same tuning if volume is not an issue, but you could also use that volume for a larger sub which would result in higher SPL with less requisite power. I personally like PRs as they make designs such as the Digger8 possible and also don't roll off as fast as a traditional ported design.
For power, I'd recommend at least 200W, but power is always purpose dependent. If you just want to fill in the low end and don't listen at very loud levels, 100W should be fine, but if you want to rumble things, you need more power. If you are power limited and have the space, it is better to go with a larger design that uses a larger driver for the higher efficiency.

Thanks for the feedback JSR. I'm in no rush so i'll check out some other slightly larger designs and see what else fits. The size and price of this design was really attractive. I have more space than required, but not a whole lot more, so they may still be a good option for me.

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I haven't been able to get a hold of Tom either. Hopefully he gets a chance to catch up with demand soon.

lowpolyjoe,

Yes, small volume with low tuning results in very long vented alignments. This is then exacerbated by long excursion drivers that need a larger diameter needing yet more port length.
One of the primary goals of my design was a compact sub that could hit the low 20s, along with low cost. There are plenty of large subs that can hit low frequencies and plenty of expensive subs that can also, but none I could find in either the commercial or DIY arenas.
You could certainly use extra volume in a ported alignment for the same tuning if volume is not an issue, but you could also use that volume for a larger sub which would result in higher SPL with less requisite power. I personally like PRs as they make designs such as the Digger8 possible and also don't roll off as fast as a traditional ported design.
For power, I'd recommend at least 200W, but power is always purpose dependent. If you just want to fill in the low end and don't listen at very loud levels, 100W should be fine, but if you want to rumble things, you need more power. If you are power limited and have the space, it is better to go with a larger design that uses a larger driver for the higher efficiency.

[lowpolyjoe]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Just read about the Digger8 in another thread recently and then saw this design thread pop up. Pretty sweet performance from something so tiny. Kudos!


I have speaker stands for my L/R main speakers and have been considering replacing them with sub stands at some point. They are larger than the space required for the diggers. I can certainly design some space *out* of the box, but that seems silly :p

I would probably down-fire the driver since i don't like the look of the car subs. The mains are Finalists at about 50lbs each. I never blast anything, but want fill in the low range for movie watching. Would there be worry running that sort of setup as a speaker stand?


I have always been fuzzy on the use of PR's. My understanding is that they behave like ports without the need to include a (possibly very long) vent. Was that the issue in a box this small tuned this low? Vent space? I'm wondering if i make use of my extra available volume with a slot port if i could reduce cost a little by foregoing the PR? I did some playing around (WinISD Pro Alpha) with a slot port tuning my available volume in the mid 20's for one of the Infinity 8's or 10's. Looks pretty good.

I've heard great things about these Infinity car subs (i'm not as familiar with the JBLs) and i see the 8 is only about $50 and the 10 about $60 on amazon. I would need 2 of these and would want to go cheap. What's the min plate amp size you guys would recommend to drive this setup? I think JSR said 200-300w range. Would these things do anything with 100w? This is pretty cheap:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=309-046

Although i am a little worried about plate amp reliability. I got hum with my Dayton plate and not with my Bash. Don't remember if tested them both in the same outlet with the same receiver tho, so it's not really a fair test. Any feedback on the Technics?


If i went with the Infinity 8", a slot port and the 100w Technics plate, i'm looking at about $100 per cabinet. That's pretty darn cheap.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Excellent! Thank you Bob! I'm going to wait until Takitaj responds to see if I should just send the AE PR directly to him or if he already has experience with it, then I'll go ahead and order.

Thanks again for the link and especially for the discount code!