Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

[TKanzler]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Thanks TKanzler for the drawing of the Infinity. The JBL is not as deep if anyone is questioning fitment of the JBL version.

It's the least I could do, being that someone else (you) did all the hard work. ;) I needed it anyway to make sure it'll fit in a down-firing version (sketch below).

Benji - sketches sent.

This is what I'm working on, a down-firing version that otherwise looks the same. I added elliptical feet with spikes to match my PSB towers, and I'll finish in birch veneer and black (finish unknown at this point). The Dayton PR is shown, but the AE will be used, and without it in-hand, I kept the bracing far enough away to not have to sweat it. But I won't do final assembly until the PRs get here, just in case. I also don't know the actual thickness of the PR flange, nor the OD, so the holes will have to wait.

The white 'box' at the lower-right in the side elevation represents a worst-case plate amp, base on the BASH 300 specs, but I think I'll end up with a remote 2-channel amp in the end, and I'll test it with another 2-channel I'll borrow from my music system. The intent is a pair of these subs, left and right, though final placement will take some experimentation of course.



(forgive the sketchy sketch - it's just a scratch sheet, not a finished drawing :rolleyes

[Slicknashville]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I have been lurking on this thread for months and just recently started my Digger 8 build. I went with the Infinity, the Bash 300, and ordered the AE PR 12-970. Knowing the time for the AE would be the unknown variable in the bunch, I built my spec box Saturday and much to my chagrin the BASH AMP was DOA upon its first attempt at playing.

I knew it would sound bad without the PR, but I was ok with putting a large port on it until the PR arrives. So I have already sent back my Bash and am expecting my replacement tomorrow sometime.

I saw someone else use the port for a temp fix until their PR arrives....... Can anyone tell me the port length when using a 2.375 inner diameter port assuming the entire length is OUTSIDE the box. I also have some 4" port lying around, but i only have about 24" of that diameter......and this is just a temp fix for playing in the garage until the AE PR gets here, another 3 weeks is likely.




ALSO>>>> Since my AE PR isn't here, I would like to know is the clearance between the AE and a Bash 300 sufficient in the 20" tall 9"x 14" box design? I fear I may have to make another box and mount the BASH as low as possible......It currently sits about an 1.75" above the bottom of the box (centered on the 9" side, opposite of the 8" woofer)

[pecker]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Can anyone tell me the port length when using a 2.375 inner diameter port assuming the entire length is OUTSIDE the box. I also have some 4" port lying around, but i only have about 24" of that diameter......and this is just a temp fix for playing in the garage until the AE PR gets here, another 3 weeks is likely.

I used that driver in a box of approx. the same volume with a slot port whose area was almost the same as your 2.375 port.
It needed about 24" long to tune the box to 25Hz, so you could try one about that long.

Unfortunately the driver did not perform like the model...there is almost no output at 20Hz. Even at the box tuning of 25Hz, though I can feel air pumping out of the port, the main sound I hear at that freq is the driver rattling like a bucket of bolts.

[kevin007]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I have been lurking on this thread for months and just recently started my Digger 8 build. I went with the Infinity, the Bash 300, and ordered the AE PR 12-970. Knowing the time for the AE would be the unknown variable in the bunch, I built my spec box Saturday and much to my chagrin the BASH AMP was DOA upon its first attempt at playing.

I knew it would sound bad without the PR, but I was ok with putting a large port on it until the PR arrives. So I have already sent back my Bash and am expecting my replacement tomorrow sometime.

I saw someone else use the port for a temp fix until their PR arrives....... Can anyone tell me the port length when using a 2.375 inner diameter port assuming the entire length is OUTSIDE the box. I also have some 4" port lying around, but i only have about 24" of that diameter......and this is just a temp fix for playing in the garage until the AE PR gets here, another 3 weeks is likely.




ALSO>>>> Since my AE PR isn't here, I would like to know is the clearance between the AE and a Bash 300 sufficient in the 20" tall 9"x 14" box design? I fear I may have to make another box and mount the BASH as low as possible......It currently sits about an 1.75" above the bottom of the box (centered on the 9" side, opposite of the 8" woofer)

If you look at my sig you will see that I built two of the digger 8's. I would recommend 2 things.

1. Make the side with the PR 1.5 inch thick. The AE PR is a monster and if you want to flush mount it, it will take a 3/4 deep cut to have it flush.

2. Buy some feet for the box. Mine on carpet stayed in place, but now even with the large rubber feet on vinyl it dances all over the place when LFE is happening in a movie.

The output of these little guys is so great that my wife has not hung pictures on the wall opposite of where the subs are located. And to keep our wedding picture from the great plunge I used a 8 penny nail in a stud and left it sticking out 1 inch at an angle.

One thing that I found out is that the deep bass is kind of wasted on me. I found that I do not hear anything below 30 Hz. I can see the woofers and PR moving but don't hear the bass notes. My oldest son the bass head thinks they are the greatest thing since the hulla hoop and is amazed at how low they go. We have run those woofer burner clips off YouTube and you can see the woofer moving all the way down to 8Hz. It is a killer little sub!

If you are going to watch movies and such using one of these guys it will add so much to your movie experience that I just cant put it to words. You are going to love your digger 8!

Kevin

[Slicknashville]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Thanks for the replies...

No problem on the feet, I have some here I can use off the sub I am retiring.

I can add the additional baffle, have supplies here to do that and yes, it does look better, thanks.

My UPS man still hasn't arrived......so I am sitting here playing (becasue I have had no real training) with subwoofer enclosure software and I can get a good looking graph using Bass Box 6 when I use the port I will have to use until my AE PR arrives, but I can't get the response graph to look anywhere near it when I model the PR in the software.....Does anyone use bass Box 6? Here are the PR parameters I used, direct from AE.

I have also used the EXCEL program Woofer box and Circuit designer 5 .....but it confuses me slightly with the different terminology used for some of the parameters and I don't know the conversions...... I realize someone posted their spreadsheet on here but that was modeled with a different PR. I am just passing my time until my 2 shipments arrive. Thanks to those that are helping me out. If anyone ever modeled the infinity with the AE PR in Bass Box 6 or WIN ISD OR Woofer box and circuit designer 5 and got the graphs to show a -3db point in the low 20's maybe you can post your file and I can see which parameters I have wrong....

Fs: 6Hz
Qms: 74
Vas: 279L
Cms: .7mm/N
Mms: 970g
Rms: .5kg/s
Sd: 530sqcm

[Slicknashville]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I just thought I would give an update....... I still don't have my Passive radiator.....On July 18th, my order was 9 weeks old. My emails to the company take several days to be replied to. Its almost been another month past my 9 weeks and my last update said it was on the production table on July 28th, that was 2 weeks ago, and still no word that it has shipped.

They are definitely not meeting their shipping time projections..... I don't recommend doing business with AE if you are on any kind of a deadline.
I am still using the sub with a port for the time being, it does OK but I can hear the driver rattle like others have mentioned when I drive it hard.....

[evilskillit]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I just thought I would give an update....... I still don't have my Passive radiator.....On July 18th, my order was 9 weeks old. My emails to the company take several days to be replied to. Its almost been another month past my 9 weeks and my last update said it was on the production table on July 28th, that was 2 weeks ago, and still no word that it has shipped.

They are definitely not meeting their shipping time projections..... I don't recommend doing business with AE if you are on any kind of a deadline.
I am still using the sub with a port for the time being, it does OK but I can hear the driver rattle like others have mentioned when I drive it hard.....

Thanks for following up, I imagine anyone who remembers this thread was wondering how things turned out. It's a bummer that it's taking so long, running a low volume speaker business has got to be tough but you're right, unless you have all the time in the world to complete a project these times aren't what most people would consider acceptable. Kudos for being understanding and reasonable and not ranting about it.

Edit: it looks like most of the PRs PE sells either don't have enough excursion or are pretty expensive. Has anyone mentioned the Creative Sound Solutions (CSS) passive radiators? They're not quite as pretty as the units from AE and slightly more expensive I believe but they're very capable and less than the alternatives from PE and Madisound. They're available direct from CSS but coming from Canada shipping might be expensive, but it looks like they're also for sale at Meniscus Audio.

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=APR12

[kevin007]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I just thought I would give an update....... I still don't have my Passive radiator.....On July 18th, my order was 9 weeks old. My emails to the company take several days to be replied to. Its almost been another month past my 9 weeks and my last update said it was on the production table on July 28th, that was 2 weeks ago, and still no word that it has shipped.

They are definitely not meeting their shipping time projections..... I don't recommend doing business with AE if you are on any kind of a deadline.
I am still using the sub with a port for the time being, it does OK but I can hear the driver rattle like others have mentioned when I drive it hard.....

It's weird how AE works. I had heard all the horror stories and they got my 2 PR's done lickity split. I guess it all depends on how busy they are. But mine are very awesome I think. You will be impressed.

Kevin

[knowledgebass]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Edit: it looks like most of the PRs PE sells either don't have enough excursion or are pretty expensive. Has anyone mentioned the Creative Sound Solutions (CSS) passive radiators? They're not quite as pretty as the units from AE and slightly more expensive I believe but they're very capable and less than the alternatives from PE and Madisound. They're available direct from CSS but coming from Canada shipping might be expensive, but it looks like they're also for sale at Meniscus Audio.
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=APR12

I think CSS has a distribution deal with Meniscus because you can order drivers and some kits from Meniscus. The CSS passive radiators are available here:

http://meniscusaudio.com/css-m-34.html

[Slicknashville]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I just thought I would give an update....... I still don't have my Passive radiator.....On July 18th, my order was 9 weeks old. My emails to the company take several days to be replied to. Its almost been another month past my 9 weeks and my last update said it was on the production table on July 28th, that was 2 weeks ago, and still no word that it has shipped.

They are definitely not meeting their shipping time projections..... I don't recommend doing business with AE if you are on any kind of a deadline.
I am still using the sub with a port for the time being, it does OK but I can hear the driver rattle like others have mentioned when I drive it hard.....

Just another update. Got an email from JOhn.....copied below

Subject: RE: Enquiry from AE Speakers Online Store

Hi Paul,

Sorry for delay in response. I am working 12-18 hour days depending on how much I can physically manage with no end in sight. We don’t sell many of the 12” PR’s. We actually took them off the website recently as there is almost no profit and the packaging material alone costs a lot $10 as it is the same as for the woofers.

We have had continual issues with the CNC router. I finally got a new control board back a few days ago which I hope will finally fix the issues. I’m hoping to get time this week to install it but that is not certain at this point. We replaced nearly everything else in the control over the past 3 months and it was still having issues. To make the PR’s we need to first cut the MDF diaphragms on the CNC which I haven’t been able to do. I also need to go hook up the trailer and get some of the proper thickness MDF for the diaphragm. When they are cut I need to mix up the textured paint to spray in the pressure pot. The cleaning process when completed is quite time consuming. Then the surrounds need to be attached to the diaphragm. I just have not had time to do all this yet for the single PR.

In cleaning the other day I did find a few diaphragms that already had surrounds attached. The texture isn’t consistent from piece to piece but they all look good individually. As you only need one I should be able to do this for you right away.

Best Regards,
John


Then last night, I received another from John, saying he was working on my order and it should ship this week.

[kevin007]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Wow, I remember being a one man show in business, it's rough. But if yours are anything like mine you should be impressed. I know mine look and sound bitchin!

Kevin

[rhodesj]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Mine works great with the Dayton PR. If I build another Digger8 I would not hesitate to use it.

[JCSquats]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

We actually took them off the website recently as there is almost no profit and the packaging material alone costs a lot $10 as it is the same as for the woofers.

I can understand that part; when mine [finally] came in it was packaged extremely well.

[Slicknashville]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Just another update. Got an email from JOhn.....copied below

Subject: RE: Enquiry from AE Speakers Online Store

Hi Paul,

Sorry for delay in response. I am working 12-18 hour days depending on how much I can physically manage with no end in sight. We don’t sell many of the 12” PR’s. We actually took them off the website recently as there is almost no profit and the packaging material alone costs a lot $10 as it is the same as for the woofers.

We have had continual issues with the CNC router. I finally got a new control board back a few days ago which I hope will finally fix the issues. I’m hoping to get time this week to install it but that is not certain at this point. We replaced nearly everything else in the control over the past 3 months and it was still having issues. To make the PR’s we need to first cut the MDF diaphragms on the CNC which I haven’t been able to do. I also need to go hook up the trailer and get some of the proper thickness MDF for the diaphragm. When they are cut I need to mix up the textured paint to spray in the pressure pot. The cleaning process when completed is quite time consuming. Then the surrounds need to be attached to the diaphragm. I just have not had time to do all this yet for the single PR.

In cleaning the other day I did find a few diaphragms that already had surrounds attached. The texture isn’t consistent from piece to piece but they all look good individually. As you only need one I should be able to do this for you right away.

Best Regards,
John


Then last night, I received another from John, saying he was working on my order and it should ship this week.

Here is his exact email;

Hi Paul,

I am working on this tonight actually and hope to finish it tomorrow. I will get it shipped this week.

Best Regards,
John




Well its been 18 more days since my last communication from John.......Still no shipping info and obviously no P.R. worst company in the world to do business with....I am thinking my woofer will be wore out by the time the P.R. gets here.

[lowpolyjoe]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Really a bummer to read about the PR's availability issues - the little Infinity in a small box is a great value sub and the PR solution looks awesome. I'm glad I went ported to avoid the ordering drama - although it was more work and resulted in a bigger box.

Slicknashville - did you pay already? I hope you get your PR soon or a refund. I would be fuming in your situation.