Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Benji,

No changes to your list. I'd only comment that the Infinity is only minutely better for slightly higher power handling. Using the Dayton PR makes the difference irrelevant.
The AE PR is slightly larger diameter than the Dayton. I don't recall the exact amount but you should be able to find that with a quick Web search or email AE. It's a small amount though, around 0.25in or so.
One of my goals with the initial Digger8 design was keeping cost minimal without sacrificing performance in most situations. The Dayton PR is a good bit cheaper so that helped that goal, likewise with the Yung. If the Bash were available on sale at the time I made mine, I would've gotten that.
Good luck and thank you for the birthday wish. My Digger rumbled out a nice deep thump in appreciation.

[upsman]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Sorry to bring up an 'old' thread (4 days off being a year old! Happy Birthday Digger8!) but I wanted to see where things were nearly a year on and to ask a couple of questions.

So reading through Kevin's build thread on his Digger8 and some of JSR's comments it seems that the following is true:

Sub = JBL - Good, Infinity - Better
PR = Dayton - Good, AE PR12-970 - Better
Amp = Yung - Good, Bash - Better

Does this all still hold true or maybe there are some newer suggestions? Is the part number for the AE PR correct? Seems if all the 'better' options are ticked an F3 of slightly < 20 might be possible.

I was thinking about asking if takitaj on the forum would cut another box for me based on Kevin's specs but I just wanted to check if AE PR would physically be a straight drop in replacement for the Dayton PR?

Some places are reporting the Infinity REF860W as being out of stock, not sure if it's going EOL or it's just a stock shortage issue. Prices range from $52 (Amazon) to $80 (Infinity).

Benji, Check this out 49.00 Shipping Incl.

http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=410041&c=1309Froogle&b=Infinity_Reference+860w&gclid=CO_85_eA8LkCFQE6Qgoddy4ALQ

BobC

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Sub'd. Interested in doing this as well. Curious if Takitaj could still cut and ship one of these flat packs out. Also curious what it would cost.

I sent him an email but haven't received anything back yet, another member has said that he is very busy so I'll wait!

Benji,

No changes to your list. I'd only comment that the Infinity is only minutely better for slightly higher power handling. Using the Dayton PR makes the difference irrelevant.
The AE PR is slightly larger diameter than the Dayton. I don't recall the exact amount but you should be able to find that with a quick Web search or email AE. It's a small amount though, around 0.25in or so.
One of my goals with the initial Digger8 design was keeping cost minimal without sacrificing performance in most situations. The Dayton PR is a good bit cheaper so that helped that goal, likewise with the Yung. If the Bash were available on sale at the time I made mine, I would've gotten that.
Good luck and thank you for the birthday wish. My Digger rumbled out a nice deep thump in appreciation.

Thanks for the feedback JSR! Much appreciated! I'll go ahead and start ordering parts, will go with the Infinity, AE PR, Bash and see how it turns out! Thank you for this build!

Benji, Check this out 49.00 Shipping Incl.

http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_product_details.jsp?cid=410041&c=1309Froogle&b=Infinity_Reference+860w&gclid=CO_85_eA8LkCFQE6Qgoddy4ALQ

BobC

Thanks Bob! Is this a site that can be trusted? Have you ordered from them before?

[upsman]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Benji, I haven't but check this out: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/HookedOnTronics seems to be on the up and up......also if you use this coupon code: Z51012807515 you get an additional 5% off ($1.24).....

BobC

[upsman]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Benji let you know how it works out....just ordered one:

Hi Robert,
Thank you for placing an order with HookedOnTronics.
Listed below is a summary of your order.
Please save or print out a copy of this confirmation for your records.
You will need the Order Number to check the status of your order.

Items Ordered:
1 Reference 860w Infinity 8" Single 4 Ohm Car Subwoofer, Unit price: $48.26, Sub Total: $48.26

Merchandise Total: $48.26
Sales Tax: Exempt
S&H: $0.00
Order Total: $48.26

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Excellent! Thank you Bob! I'm going to wait until Takitaj responds to see if I should just send the AE PR directly to him or if he already has experience with it, then I'll go ahead and order.

Thanks again for the link and especially for the discount code!

[lowpolyjoe]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Just read about the Digger8 in another thread recently and then saw this design thread pop up. Pretty sweet performance from something so tiny. Kudos!


I have speaker stands for my L/R main speakers and have been considering replacing them with sub stands at some point. They are larger than the space required for the diggers. I can certainly design some space *out* of the box, but that seems silly :p

I would probably down-fire the driver since i don't like the look of the car subs. The mains are Finalists at about 50lbs each. I never blast anything, but want fill in the low range for movie watching. Would there be worry running that sort of setup as a speaker stand?


I have always been fuzzy on the use of PR's. My understanding is that they behave like ports without the need to include a (possibly very long) vent. Was that the issue in a box this small tuned this low? Vent space? I'm wondering if i make use of my extra available volume with a slot port if i could reduce cost a little by foregoing the PR? I did some playing around (WinISD Pro Alpha) with a slot port tuning my available volume in the mid 20's for one of the Infinity 8's or 10's. Looks pretty good.

I've heard great things about these Infinity car subs (i'm not as familiar with the JBLs) and i see the 8 is only about $50 and the 10 about $60 on amazon. I would need 2 of these and would want to go cheap. What's the min plate amp size you guys would recommend to drive this setup? I think JSR said 200-300w range. Would these things do anything with 100w? This is pretty cheap:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=309-046

Although i am a little worried about plate amp reliability. I got hum with my Dayton plate and not with my Bash. Don't remember if tested them both in the same outlet with the same receiver tho, so it's not really a fair test. Any feedback on the Technics?


If i went with the Infinity 8", a slot port and the 100w Technics plate, i'm looking at about $100 per cabinet. That's pretty darn cheap.

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I haven't been able to get a hold of Tom either. Hopefully he gets a chance to catch up with demand soon.

lowpolyjoe,

Yes, small volume with low tuning results in very long vented alignments. This is then exacerbated by long excursion drivers that need a larger diameter needing yet more port length.
One of the primary goals of my design was a compact sub that could hit the low 20s, along with low cost. There are plenty of large subs that can hit low frequencies and plenty of expensive subs that can also, but none I could find in either the commercial or DIY arenas.
You could certainly use extra volume in a ported alignment for the same tuning if volume is not an issue, but you could also use that volume for a larger sub which would result in higher SPL with less requisite power. I personally like PRs as they make designs such as the Digger8 possible and also don't roll off as fast as a traditional ported design.
For power, I'd recommend at least 200W, but power is always purpose dependent. If you just want to fill in the low end and don't listen at very loud levels, 100W should be fine, but if you want to rumble things, you need more power. If you are power limited and have the space, it is better to go with a larger design that uses a larger driver for the higher efficiency.

[lowpolyjoe]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I haven't been able to get a hold of Tom either. Hopefully he gets a chance to catch up with demand soon.

lowpolyjoe,

Yes, small volume with low tuning results in very long vented alignments. This is then exacerbated by long excursion drivers that need a larger diameter needing yet more port length.
One of the primary goals of my design was a compact sub that could hit the low 20s, along with low cost. There are plenty of large subs that can hit low frequencies and plenty of expensive subs that can also, but none I could find in either the commercial or DIY arenas.
You could certainly use extra volume in a ported alignment for the same tuning if volume is not an issue, but you could also use that volume for a larger sub which would result in higher SPL with less requisite power. I personally like PRs as they make designs such as the Digger8 possible and also don't roll off as fast as a traditional ported design.
For power, I'd recommend at least 200W, but power is always purpose dependent. If you just want to fill in the low end and don't listen at very loud levels, 100W should be fine, but if you want to rumble things, you need more power. If you are power limited and have the space, it is better to go with a larger design that uses a larger driver for the higher efficiency.

Thanks for the feedback JSR. I'm in no rush so i'll check out some other slightly larger designs and see what else fits. The size and price of this design was really attractive. I have more space than required, but not a whole lot more, so they may still be a good option for me.

[JCSquats]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

I don't have modeling software, so forgive my rather ignorant submission, but I felt given the price point that it was worth a mention if not a consideration.

The RE Audio RTPRO8D4. $45.00!

Electrical Q Value -Qes: 0.38
Mechanical Q Value -Qms: 4.21
Total Speaker Q Value -Qts: 0.34
Free Air Resonance -Fs: 22.8 Hz
Equivalent Compliance -Vas: 27.1 liters
One-Way, Linear Excursion -Xmax: 12 mm
Efficiency -SPL 1W/1m: 81.2 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area -Sd: 195 cm^2
DC Resistance -Re: 3.2 ohm
Nominal Impedance -Znom: Dual 4 ohm
Thermal Power Handling -Pe: 195 W
Force Factor -Bl: 15.4Electrical Q Value -Qes: 0.38
Mechanical Q Value -Qms: 4.21
Total Speaker Q Value -Qts: 0.34
Free Air Resonance -Fs: 22.8 Hz
Equivalent Compliance -Vas: 27.1 liters
One-Way, Linear Excursion -Xmax: 12 mm
Efficiency -SPL 1W/1m: 81.2 dB SPL
Effective Piston Area -Sd: 195 cm^2
DC Resistance -Re: 3.2 ohm
Nominal Impedance -Znom: Dual 4 ohm
Thermal Power Handling -Pe: 195 W
Force Factor -Bl: 15.4

Could this be a contender for a heavy-mass PR'd small enclosure as well? Heck, with a sealed enclosure this will F3 into the high 30s.

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Lowpolyjoe,
If you have a bit more space but not a lot, you can add a false floor to raise the height of the Digger8.
I don't know anything about the Technics ammo but 100W won't be very loud. My Yungs have been solid aside from some quirks with the auto on circuit. I prefer PRs over ports as I've found that even ports that modeled to have no problems often end up chuffing enough to bother me.

Jcsquats,
That's an interesting sub from RE. If I have a budget in the near future I may look into a design for that. Or sooner if I'm commissioned to do something. I prefer small subs as I dont have much space. Most of the sub talk I read revolved around 2cf and larger which is huge in my tiny house.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Just an FYI, I just ordered the Infinity Reference 860W from Amazon for $45.39!

http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-860w-High-Performance-Subwoofer/dp/B002GHBUFY

Got my OS MTM+TM's Meniscus kits, BASH 300S amp ordered, I'm ordering the AE PR tomorrow and 'nikbrewer' is cutting me some MDF for all of the above for this! Can't wait, the Digger8/OS TM's/OS MTM's will be my first builds!

[jsr]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Sweet Benji! You'll have a nice little setup there.

[superspeeder]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

WRT the Yung amps and HPF, I don't know anything for sure about the 300w model, but I have the 500w model without boost and it has a HPF built in. It rolls off hard below 30Hz.

I did some digging and found a forum post (AVS I think) where someone reverse engineered the 500w model's HPF and gave recommended resistor values for various frequencies. I'm on my phone right now, PITA to look it up.

Unless you test your amp to show otherwise, I would assume the 300w model features a similar HPF. This could be the reason you're not over extending your PR if the sims show otherwise.

The PE techs will answer your product questions as accurately as possible, based on the product literature provided by the manufacturer. Yung makes no mention of a HPF in the manual, therefore you were told it is not so equipped.

[Benji]

Re: Digger8 Sub - diggity dig it all the way to 20Hz

Ordered the AE PR12-970 today, quoted 2-4 week build time (as expected) but that's no problem as that's pretty much the same amount of time nikbrewer has quoted to do the wood.

I'm going to be sitting there with a bunch of speakers and wires and nothing to mount them too, that's going to be a killer!