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$500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

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  • #31
    Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

    Originally posted by MagicO309d View Post
    If WAF is the ultimate decider and a sub along with center and surround speakers will be added later, wouldn't some sort of popular 5.25" based bookshelf MTM to MMTMM make the most sense as the starting point?
    Yes. I'm leaning towards the Zaph SR71 at Madisound at the moment. Sub and center channel will come in down the road. Would these do ok in my large room?

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    • #32
      Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

      That's the one, but it uses the "Classic" series drivers, not the RS drivers. It will work in a smaller box, as I've used that design in quite a few OEM speaker boxes, about 3-3.5 ft3 volume and they sound great. Use Chris' XO/port dimensions, as the original XO that Dave Tenney designed was XO Pro-derived. Chris' uses less parts and gets the job done much better regarding overall SQ. No one that I've built them for has been disappointed, even the ones where I used their original store-bought speaker boxes. One was with a pair of older Advents that used two woofers in about 3.5 ft3, floor-standing size. I just cut a new baffle to accomodate the new driver compliment and attached it over the original baffle. I had to add in a lot of bracing since the Advents didn't have any at all, but we saved an older pair of speakers from being thrown away; they were completely transformed AFA SQ, tonal balance and especially imaging. Tough decision, as there are many excellent choices. I can say that Meniscus is a quality company, great folks working there and have given me terrific customer service over the years. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them for any of the kits they offer. The parts kit options allow you to build your own cabinets. Keep us up to date on your choice(s) or if any other ?'s arise. Good luck.


      John A.
      "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
      Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
      Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
      Pioneer TX-9500 II
      Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
      Statement Monitors
      Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
      Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
      Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

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      • #33
        Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

        Saw your in Chehalis! I was born in Kelso just down the road, grew up there. I'm up near Woodinville these days.

        I did notice that Dave T. used the classics. Depending on the x-over costs, an RS MTM may stay near my budget (~$330 in drivers). Could you point me to someone that's tried one? It seems that the RS drivers do quite well, I guess I'm assuming the RS series would sound better than the classics in a tuned MTM (or that they play well together)? I was thinking about (2) RS225-4 and (1) RS28F-4 per speaker......someone must have tried this?

        I'm set on the SR71 kit at the moment. Although I'm obviously still curious. Thanks to the forum, I'm fully hooked!

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        • #34
          Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

          I dont think there's been a rs225 mtm. I'm guessing the tweeter could be over driven by the output capability of the dual woofers when crossed so low. There is a TM design

          http://www.audioheuristics.org/proje...ence_rs225.htm
          http://jaysspeakerpage.weebly.com/

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          • #35
            Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

            Originally posted by Jay1 View Post
            I dont think there's been a rs225 mtm. I'm guessing the tweeter could be over driven by the output capability of the dual woofers when crossed so low. There is a TM design

            http://www.audioheuristics.org/proje...ence_rs225.htm
            Got it, thanks. Adding addtional tweets and/or mids to keep up wouldn't fit within my budget. Maybe down the road!

            Likley ordering the SR71 kit at the end of the week. Any benifits to the x-over upgrades offered at Madisound: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...ir-parts-only/

            Specifically looking at adding Clarity ESA Cap for tweeter and impedance flattening circuit (+ $27).

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            • #36
              Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

              member Lunchmoney turned his sr71 into a threeway but he really enjoyed them as a twoway for quite a while first.


              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...highlight=sr71
              http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...highlight=sr71
              " To me, the soundstage presentation is more about phase and distortion and less about size. However, when you talk about bass extension, there's no replacement for displacement". Tyger23. 4.2015

              Quote Originally Posted by hongrn. Oct 2014
              Do you realize that being an American is like winning the biggest jackpot ever??

              http://www.midwestaudioclub.com/spot...owell-simpson/
              http://s413.photobucket.com/albums/pp216/arlis/

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              • #37
                Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                A $500 budget with a subwoofer in the near future... and NTN or D8 as suggestions? I don't understand that.
                Craig

                I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

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                • #38
                  Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                  go for sound quality if you are going to add a sub later. most good 2 way designs will play as loud as you need in a normal size room when you add a sub to the system. if you spend money on a design right now and upgrade later you have wasted 500.00. so buy the best sounding speaker you can, then 6 months down the road you will not be disappointed in the sound quality of you system.
                  craigk

                  " Voicing is often the term used for band aids to cover for initial design/planning errors " - Pallas

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                  • #39
                    Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                    Originally posted by PWR RYD View Post
                    A $500 budget with a subwoofer in the near future... and NTN or D8 as suggestions? I don't understand that.
                    I don't think the Dayton 8's would help out with the WAF. They are interesting though. My first attempt at the idea of speakers that filled the entire space to the L and R of the TV didn't go so well.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                      Originally posted by craigk View Post
                      go for sound quality if you are going to add a sub later. most good 2 way designs will play as loud as you need in a normal size room when you add a sub to the system. if you spend money on a design right now and upgrade later you have wasted 500.00. so buy the best sounding speaker you can, then 6 months down the road you will not be disappointed in the sound quality of you system.
                      I am definitely leaning towards 2-way.

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                      • #41
                        Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                        I like the Mandolin design from Jeff Bagby. It's a 2-way available from meniscus. However, if I was going to do it again, I'd be interested in an MTM design for higher sensativity / output. Great imaging, detail, and clarity. I really enjoyed the Overnight Sensation MTM, but something bigger might be nice too.

                        Movies, music, or both? How loud do you like it? What kind of amplification are you thinking about?
                        -Dan
                        Mandolin Curved Cabinet Floorstanding; Dayton Reference 18" sealed Subwoofer; Sealed 12" Dayton Reference Subwoofer ; Overnight Sensation builds

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                        • #42
                          Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                          Originally posted by djkest View Post
                          I like the Mandolin design from Jeff Bagby. It's a 2-way available from meniscus. However, if I was going to do it again, I'd be interested in an MTM design for higher sensativity / output. Great imaging, detail, and clarity. I really enjoyed the Overnight Sensation MTM, but something bigger might be nice too.

                          Movies, music, or both? How loud do you like it? What kind of amplification are you thinking about?
                          Have you heard the Mandolin compared to the SR71? I'm drawn to the SEAS speakers, always been curious.

                          Movies and music. I bet these will be used for movies 75% of the time. I haven't thought about how much power or type of amplification. In the future, I will move to seperate amps/pre-amp. For now, I'm thinking about using receiver power. I haven't picked up a receiver yet, but I'm considering a Denon AVR 3808CI based on features, reviews, and used price. I'm looking for a receiver that I can hook into my home network via CAT5 and has HDMI hook ups.

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                          • #43
                            Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                            Originally posted by Jetfire View Post
                            Have you heard the Mandolin compared to the SR71? I'm drawn to the SEAS speakers, always been curious.

                            Movies and music. I bet these will be used for movies 75% of the time. I haven't thought about how much power or type of amplification. In the future, I will move to seperate amps/pre-amp. For now, I'm thinking about using receiver power. I haven't picked up a receiver yet, but I'm considering a Denon AVR 3808CI based on features, reviews, and used price. I'm looking for a receiver that I can hook into my home network via CAT5 and has HDMI hook ups.
                            I haven't heard the SR-71 so I couldn't say.

                            Check this out though: a little over budget but this would give you some clean power that would be really hard to beat, and would make your movie experience more theater-like. No problems getting lots of volume with an AVR either.

                            http://www.diysoundgroup.com/wavegui...ion12-kit.html

                            No disrespect meant to the other designers, but this one seems to be one of the best of the waveguide speaker kits available.
                            -Dan
                            Mandolin Curved Cabinet Floorstanding; Dayton Reference 18" sealed Subwoofer; Sealed 12" Dayton Reference Subwoofer ; Overnight Sensation builds

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                            • #44
                              Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                              I was in the same boat as you are. SR 71 is good choice. But then I discovered Usher UA701 kit from parts express. The Usher driver has deeper low freq. extension and the kit has bigger cabinet(0.75 cu. ft.). I think they are all out of stock for the kits that were on clearance. But the parts count is almost the same. The Usher woofer is costlier than the Seas woofer ($92 vs. $129) but worth every extra penny IMHO.

                              Here is the link for Usher kit.
                              http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=302-952

                              You can just buy separate parts if you dont want to pay $328 per speaker. The kit manual has list of all the parts that are in the kit. It was also a featured speaker project a while ago on PE.

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                              • #45
                                Re: $500 for my first DIY speaker project..........help and questions!!

                                Originally posted by Jetfire View Post
                                ...I end up with 10" wide x 45" high x 19" deep. Here is a picture of the TV area:
                                [ATTACH=CONFIG]32772[/ATTACH]...
                                I've read through the thread and I don't see the single most important bit of advice:

                                you need an on-wall/in-wall/no BSC design and the difference is all in the crossover.

                                I attached your room picture; note the gap between the TV and side cabinets where you want to put speakers. To me, that looks just like Toole's Fig. 12-11a, frequency response for a free-standing speaker on a shelf. This is what you get if you take the vast majority of recommendations received on this thread.
                                http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=34016&

                                The goal is the flat response of Fig 12.8a, in your location. Fig 12.8b is what you'll get if you use a free-standing design in your intended location. You need to do two things (not just one) to address these issues
                                - use a no BSC design, so frequency response is flat from 1KHz to the bass roll-off (12.8A vs B)
                                - make it flush with the TV screen and cabinets, so there are no diffraction-producing edges. (like Fig. 12.9a without the BSC bump)

                                My first DIY speaker was a CC. I built it with a free-standing XO, and put it on a shelf below the TV. Boomy, bloated, overpowering bass was the result; immediately obvious even to my untrained ears. I change XO to an in-wall design and all of a sudden, it blended right in. Not a subtle difference to my ears...

                                And most all design "families" include an in-wall accomodation, if not a wholely new XO. I've built Continuum and it's one of the exceptions; free-standing only.

                                I will also suggest MTMs as their form factor fills your space well, they're louder and more sensitive, and thdispersion pattern works quite well for HT applications. Mine are 9" baffles so you have enough space, and they include the full family, down to a "value" option.
                                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/ne...reply&t=235836
                                Scroll down to post #30 for in-wall XO that I built using the D3004/602010 tweeter. these are the mains I built...
                                http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969
                                ...but since you don't want BSC, you'd build this (or the Modula version if so inclined):
                                http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22626

                                NatP standalones were ~$400/pair for parts last year. The Modula MTM CC in-wall, about $350 for the single speaker. Here's a link to a similar build:
                                http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...#axzz2JIogV9mN

                                HAve fun,
                                Frank

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