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  • #61
    Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

    Oh, I forgot to mention how nice it is to have dynamic ability limited only by the amp and your ears. Everything is effortless.
    Loren Jones

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

    http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

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    • #62
      Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

      Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
      Oh, I forgot to mention how nice it is to have dynamic ability limited only by the amp and your ears. Everything is effortless.
      I know exactly how you feel!!!

      It's great having a speaker that can totally wow you with only 40W at your disposal.
      R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
      Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

      95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
      "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

        Congratulations Loren, these are a fantastic implementation of high quality/high effeciency drivers. Your craftsmanship is top notch, and I'm sure Dennis made the magic happen with the crossovers.

        I'm curious about any lobing problems. With near field systems, just the size of the components (vertical height of the MTM) would cause problems. But in the far field, I'm thinking that at 10' to 15' even lobes generated by the large ctr to ctr distance would have a tendency to overlap and blend. Also, the primary lobe, even if it is initially small will have a chance to expand vertically.

        I'm thinking they wouldn't be noticable at all with normal head movements while listening.

        Have you noticed anything?
        Jay T
        http://sites.google.com/site/lhwidgetssite/home

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

          Originally posted by lhwidget View Post
          Congratulations Loren, these are a fantastic implementation of high quality/high effeciency drivers. Your craftsmanship is top notch, and I'm sure Dennis made the magic happen with the crossovers.

          I'm curious about any lobing problems. With near field systems, just the size of the components (vertical height of the MTM) would cause problems. But in the far field, I'm thinking that at 10' to 15' even lobes generated by the large ctr to ctr distance would have a tendency to overlap and blend. Also, the primary lobe, even if it is initially small will have a chance to expand vertically.

          I'm thinking they wouldn't be noticable at all with normal head movements while listening.

          Have you noticed anything?
          Yes the vertical lobing is less pronounced at greater distances. My couch is probably 10 feet back from the speakers in my current room. At that distance there is a very noticeable change from sitting to standing. If I am standing 6 feet behind the couch though standing is fine. I'm moving in July and will have more distance to the listening position then which will be good I think. I will definitely try a lower crossover to see how much that changes once I have 6 channels of amplification to play with active DSP implementation.

          Dennis did an awesome job. The tonal balance is very similar to his Philharmonic series but these are a much more direct and focused sound. I'm sure that is due both to less directionality of the forward radiating component of his speakers but even more so to the open back mid and treble he uses. So these don't throw that huge expansive soundstage. Much more pinpoint kind of presentation. They image well, but it's just not that big voluminous soundstage. I'm actually happy cuz that is my preference.
          Loren Jones

          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

          http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

            Originally posted by lhwidget View Post
            Congratulations Loren, these are a fantastic implementation of high quality/high effeciency drivers. Your craftsmanship is top notch, and I'm sure Dennis made the magic happen with the crossovers.

            I'm curious about any lobing problems. With near field systems, just the size of the components (vertical height of the MTM) would cause problems. But in the far field, I'm thinking that at 10' to 15' even lobes generated by the large ctr to ctr distance would have a tendency to overlap and blend. Also, the primary lobe, even if it is initially small will have a chance to expand vertically.

            I'm thinking they wouldn't be noticable at all with normal head movements while listening.

            Have you noticed anything?
            Yes the vertical lobing is less pronounced at greater distances. My couch is probably 10 feet back from the speakers in my current room. At that distance there is a very noticeable change from sitting to standing. If I am standing 6 feet behind the couch though standing is fine. I'm moving in July and will have more distance to the listening position then which will be good I think. I will definitely try a lower crossover to see how much that changes once I have 6 channels of amplification to play with active DSP implementation.

            Dennis did an awesome job. The tonal balance is very similar to his Philharmonic series but these are a much more direct and focused sound. I'm sure that is due both to less directionality of the forward radiating component of his speakers but even more so to the open back mid and treble he uses. So these don't throw that huge expansive soundstage. Much more pinpoint kind of presentation. They image well, but it's just not that big voluminous soundstage. I'm actually happy cuz that is my preference.
            Loren Jones

            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

            http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

              Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
              Yes the vertical lobing is less pronounced at greater distances. My couch is probably 10 feet back from the speakers in my current room. At that distance there is a very noticeable change from sitting to standing. If I am standing 6 feet behind the couch though standing is fine. I'm moving in July and will have more distance to the listening position then which will be good I think. I will definitely try a lower crossover to see how much that changes once I have 6 channels of amplification to play with active DSP implementation.

              Dennis did an awesome job. The tonal balance is very similar to his Philharmonic series but these are a much more direct and focused sound. I'm sure that is due both to less directionality of the forward radiating component of his speakers but even more so to the open back mid and treble he uses. So these don't throw that huge expansive soundstage. Much more pinpoint kind of presentation. They image well, but it's just not that big voluminous soundstage. I'm actually happy cuz that is my preference.
              Part of that obvious change is the directivity of the tweeter. It does fire a laser beam at higher frequencies. While that big AMT offers unreal dynamics, the physical size does cause it to narrow dramatically up high. That's one reason we stuck a smaller rear mounted AMT on our Arcus monitor. It definitely improves the off axis sound and smooths things audibly between seated and standing positions.
              R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
              Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

              95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
              "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                Part of that obvious change is the directivity of the tweeter. It does fire a laser beam at higher frequencies. While that big AMT offers unreal dynamics, the physical size does cause it to narrow dramatically up high. That's one reason we stuck a smaller rear mounted AMT on our Arcus monitor. It definitely improves the off axis sound and smooths things audibly between seated and standing positions.
                Yeah. A 6" long line source beams quite a lot as the frequency goes up. The Beyma spec is 30 deg vertical by 80 deg horizontal but if you look at their beam width vs frequency plot it is narrower than even the 30 deg spec in the top octave. I've seen some guys make them into dipoles.

                But that's a good observation that the loss of HF when standing is prob as much due to the tweet as it is to the MTM.
                Loren Jones

                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                  I know this is kind of silly but I've been perseverating on a name for this build for quite some time now. Does anyone have a brilliant suggestion besides "huge loud box hated by wives"?
                  Loren Jones

                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                  http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                    very interesting project! Wish I was closer and could give it a listen.
                    One thing that I am personally missing would be an individual test data on the drivers. Would be very curious to look at the distortions of that mega ribbon beast as well as the woofer.
                    http://www.diy-ny.com/

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                      Well if I ever get them looking presentable I will bring them to a DIY gathering. I'd love to hear some of the awesome looking projects people are constantly building here. I'd love to hear your arrays with those 18" Faital's

                      The woofer distortion measurements are something I don't have and haven't seen anywhere. I trust B&C having used them in the pro side of things. Their designs are very solid and have always performed well for me.

                      Zaph did measure the midranges previously.

                      This link has some distortion info on the tweeter. It has respectably low distortion, ESP the upper order stuff.

                      http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten...TPL-150_en.pdf

                      Originally posted by r-carpenter View Post
                      very interesting project! Wish I was closer and could give it a listen.
                      One thing that I am personally missing would be an individual test data on the drivers. Would be very curious to look at the distortions of that mega ribbon beast as well as the woofer.
                      Loren Jones

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...-sound-drivers

                      http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...for-live-sound

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                        IIRC pete has posted HD measurements on those beyma tweeters.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Active 3 way, pro-sound drivers

                          Originally posted by lorenmjones View Post
                          Well if I ever get them looking presentable I will bring them to a DIY gathering. I'd love to hear some of the awesome looking projects people are constantly building here. I'd love to hear your arrays with those 18" Faital's

                          The woofer distortion measurements are something I don't have and haven't seen anywhere. I trust B&C having used them in the pro side of things. Their designs are very solid and have always performed well for me.

                          Zaph did measure the midranges previously.

                          This link has some distortion info on the tweeter. It has respectably low distortion, ESP the upper order stuff.

                          http://www.beyma.de/fileadmin/seiten...TPL-150_en.pdf
                          Thanks.
                          I did see Zaph's measurements of the mid. They are quite admirable.
                          My line array are unfortunately unmovable. The mid/tweeter towers are around 300lb each and with Faitals it'll probably almost double.
                          If you are in NY, definitely drop me a PM, drink some beers and shoot speaker building breeze and give it a listen.
                          http://www.diy-ny.com/

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