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First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

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  • First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

    But my mind can change. As of right now, my plans are to build a speaker set that will go in my garage, but with the capability (read WAF) to be able to be moved indoors to my Living room. In order to have the speakers fit the first objective, they must be fairly efficient, as a garage set is not doing their job unless the neighbors windows are rattling. In order for the speakers to fit the second one, they have to have a small profile. They can be tall and deep, but they cannot be real wide, so an 8" driver or less is probably the way to go.

    My listening habits are fairly diverse. on any given day I can listen to Beethoven followed by Garth Brooks followed by Prince followed by Dream Theater, but being completely honest, the music that I listen to the most is Classic Rock and Progressive. I like my Bass, and I feel that Bass should be fairly pronounced in any speaker.

    The Third requirement that I have is the speakers must be inexpensive. This is my first project, and probably not my last. I will be learning as I go with this little excursion of mine. The wife wants me to have a hobby (I'm a stay at home dad), but she doesn't want the hobby to cost anything. I asked her if she wanted a pet Unicorn too, and, although I got random household goods thrown at me, I got the point across, and have some leeway as far as price goes, but $200, give or take is about what I would be able to spend on parts. The Cabinet supplies I can get as needed, thus it is easier to hide those costs.

    At any rate, I've been doing a bunch of reading over the last month, played around with WinISD and PCD and looked at about a million designs, give or take. At some point, I just have to do it in order to learn, as reading can only teach so much.

    From what I can tell, the Amiga's fulfill three of my requirements. They have a slim (Ish) profile. They have a good Bass Response, and they are fairly inexpensive. They do not, from the reading that I have done, play very loudly. For reference, right now the main speakers that I use are some Cerwin Vega AT-8's from the early 90's (I think), and they play plenty loud, and are rated somewhere around 94 DB.

    Anyway, the question I have is can anyone suggest an alternative that will more fit the loudness aspect that I am looking for? Maybe a parallel wired MTM Amiga, or something along those lines?

  • #2
    Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

    TriTrix?
    -Dan
    Mandolin Curved Cabinet Floorstanding; Dayton Reference 18" sealed Subwoofer; Sealed 12" Dayton Reference Subwoofer ; Overnight Sensation builds

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    • #3
      Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

      Google "Dayton 8" by Dave Tenney. They can be built about 9"w, and still retain gobs of deep bass, even as small as about 3.4cf. Not the most refined, but tons of fun and pretty loud. No sub required.

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      • #4
        Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

        You said you want pronounced bass response. Paul's designs are well balanced, as are most of the designs on this forum. Folks generally design for flat response and expected the user to adjust for personal preferences.

        I also think you are misunderstanding the whole efficiency spec. For instance, I can play Paul's OS MTMs loud enough to be heard through earmuffs, over a router. The AMigas will be more capable.

        For your preferences, you might be happier with Paul's Classix II. Will probably fit the budget better as well.
        I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now.
        OS MTMs http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=220388
        Swope TM http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=221818
        Econowave and Audio Nirvana AN10 fullrange http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=216841
        Imperial Russian Stouts http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...=1#post1840444
        LECBOS. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...ghlight=lecbos

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        • #5
          Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

          Chris, I've looked at the Dayton 8" and have bandied it about over at Audiokarma, and the overall design was fairly well panned, and the DC200-8 itself was not given favorable "reviews" by Gordon W among others as anything other than a woofer due to the response problems beginning around 2k hz.

          The TriTrix I've kind of dismissed. One of the big reasons I am choosing speaker building as a hobby is the woodworking aspect. I want to build the cabinet myself, and I don't that a first project should be a transmission line. Just a nice relatively simple ported design. Plus, from what I've read on them, I'd probably eventually need a Sub, which I don't want to be forced into doing.

          Speaking of Wayne J designs, though, I have thought about the DIII's. They don't seem incredibly complicated to put together, and they are inexpensive. http://www.parts-express.com/project...ayton_iii.html

          Parts for this specific plan would amount to $216 from PE (seriously, 20 bucks for one inductor????), which is right around my threshold.

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          • #6
            Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

            to be honest high efficiency speakers for $200 is a tough objective. generaly speaking a mtm configeration run in parallel might get you to 90 db but will cost more b/c of the extra drivers. If your willing to go for less efficient speakers fastbikes recomendation of the classic ii sounds like it fits most of your needs.

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            • #7
              Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

              I have a pair of Amigas.. and while I don't think they'll shake your neighbors windows (or yours for that matter) I've never thought "man I wish those got louder". What one finds to be loud enough is entirely a subjective matter so take it for what it's worth. I don't generally listen to music really loud, but I do throw frequent dance parties with the kiddos.

              They do play down into the 30's. Sometimes I turn my sub off when I listen to them and while I'm still satisfied with the bass output I wouldn't go as far as to say the bass is pronounced.. simply balanced. I'm reading into your use of pronounced to mean a touch on the bass heavy side. Paul has another design, the ZX Spectrum, (which you are probably familiar with since you seem to have done your homework) that have.. how did Paul put it? more ***** in the bass department? They're 100 bucks more though.

              The Amigas definitely meet the cheap requirement. For $200 bucks they are hard to beat. My thoughts on them, and I don't have golden ears, is they don't really do anything wrong. Which I appreciate. I don't think "ugh I hate how... sounds on these" when I'm listening. They are a great gateway drug into the hobby.

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              • #8
                Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                Originally posted by AudioSQ View Post
                Paul has another design, the ZX Spectrum, (which you are probably familiar with since you seem to have done your homework) that have.. how did Paul put it? more ***** in the bass department? They're 100 bucks more though.
                I've looked at that particular one (I've spent a lot of time on his site, for some reason). I have always been a person that craves function well over aesthetics, but for this first project I'm planning on painting the cabinets using a very specific color scheme to match much of the other loose decorations that I have in my house, and that gold woofer just would not fit at all. I could put a cover over the drivers to mask it, but I've never really been fond of using speaker covers, as the drivers in a speaker system themselves are a big part of the aesthetic appeal for me.



                My color Scheme, btw

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                • #9
                  Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                  Just thought I would share a link to the Classix II complete kit if that happens to be the way you want to go.

                  http://meniscusaudio.com/classixii-pair-p-1333.html
                  HAGD,
                  Marc

                  Even though I try to tell everyone upfront, understand that I am still a Newb. I wish the status of Seasoned Veteran/Senior Member, etc. was earned with time not posts...

                  TMWW thread

                  Maurbacs DCR Tower

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                  • #10
                    Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                    Well there's your mistake... wrong football team.. there's a lot you could work with on the HiVi's... Saints, 49's, Rams, maybe the Buccaneers.

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                    • #11
                      Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                      Regarding Chris' recommendation on the D8, I've built a few pairs over the years, one pair was using a friends existing enclosures. Plus, I had a long career at a local old-school mom/pop audio store, so I know a teeny bit about SQ and the differences/improvements that can be achieved with a well-designed DIY effort compared to even expensive OEM speakers. The Classic series of woofers have been panned for their midrange performance, like the 8" and 6.5" (the woofers in the DIII). Listening to comparable recognized retail brands, the overall SQ of the DIII's and D8's are not the poor performers they are made out to be. If you have high expectations of the inexpensive drivers, then yes, you can be disappointed. But those two designs are good ones. There is a newer XO for the D8, which offers a better SQ experience with less parts. They will get "loud" and you do not need a sub with the D8. The existing enclosures I used for a friends D8's were an Advent design that used two woofers...I think they were either 8" or 10" dual woofers in a TWW config. I had logged many hours listening to those Advents at my friends place. He was shocked at the SQ improvements going from the Advent to the D8. That's all he listened to for years, so I think he was just used to the SQ of the Advent. I did add in a couple internal braces and had to cut a new baffle to fit over the original, so the stiffer cabinet did contribute some to the improvement. He's also a classic rock and metal enthusiast and he still loves the SQ, the bass performance and how loud they'll get with his older Marantz receiver. That was a reason he mentioned right away, the fact that they still sound great at higher volumes, where the Advents would c-r-a-p out with a louder volume, distorting and breaking up in the highs and bass. The Amiga would definitely offer a more refined experience compared to the DIII or D8, having the advantage of a well thought out XO, so If I could have just one, I'd go with Paul's design. Keep us posted on your progress and any other concerns/questions you have. We'll gladly enable, I mean help you to further your knowledge and appreciation of this hobby!


                      John A.
                      "Children play with b-a-l-l-s and sticks, men race, and real men race motorcycles"-John Surtees
                      Emotiva UPA-2, USP-1, ERC-1 CD
                      Yamaha KX-390 HX-Pro
                      Pioneer TX-9500 II
                      Yamaha YP-211 w/Grado GF3E+
                      Statement Monitors
                      Vintage system: Yamaha CR-420, Technics SL-PG100, Pioneer CT-F8282, Akai X-1800, Morel(T)/Vifa(W) DIY 2-way in .5 ft3
                      Photos: http://custom.smugmug.com/Electronic...#4114714_cGTBx
                      Blogs: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/blog.php?u=2003

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                      • #12
                        Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                        Originally posted by AudioSQ View Post
                        Well there's your mistake... wrong football team.. there's a lot you could work with on the HiVi's... Saints, 49's, Rams, maybe the Buccaneers.
                        I'd go with one of those team's colors, but then I'd have to burn down my house because of contamination.

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                        • #13
                          Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                          I dunno if you're ready for this hobby then.. if you aren't willing to change your favorite football team so that it matches the colors of a better woofer for your football fan speaker rig .. maybe you should take up baking..

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                          • #14
                            Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                            Originally posted by AudioSQ View Post
                            I dunno if you're ready for this hobby then.. if you aren't willing to change your favorite football team so that it matches the colors of a better woofer for your football fan speaker rig .. maybe you should take up baking..
                            My Mother in Law and Sister in Law both make cakes for a living, and do them really well. The problem with baking as a hobby is that if you get any kind of good at it, people keep asking you to do crap for them. I want a hobby, but then I also want to be as lazy as humanly possible.

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                            • #15
                              Re: First speaker building project. Looking at Paul Carmody's Amiga Project

                              John, do you happen to know where I can find some good info on it? The only place I've been able to find the build is using the Way back Machine for Wayne's site.

                              On a side note, until very recently, I thought that the Way Back Machine was a euphemism for just some really old crap.

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