Paul Carmody's Subs

[kevin007]

Paul,

Having built a few pairs of your speakers I have really come to love the sound of the OS series and my Classix II's. I saw that you had some sub designs and I was looking for a good low cost sub perhaps even a tapped horn. I think two tall skinny subs that would serve double duty as speaker stands for my OS MTM's would be the perfect setup.

I also noticed that you had mentioned that you were going to revise your sub designs. I was most interested in the pony sub. When I saw the dimensions of the pony sub cabinet and the fact that you use a lower cost 70 watt amp to power it and that it seems to dig deep I became very interested.

Do you think you will be revising the plans or coming up with something else? I ask because I want to plan out my sub build next. I would love to build a pair of subs that can dig deep and have no problems reproducing LFE from movies and still remain musical.

Let us know what you think...

Thanks,

Kevin

[djg]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

I am not Paul. But,...... could you afford two of these?

https://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=538

Erich H had a tapped horn flat pack for these. I built two and use them as you said, speaker stands. Big thread over at AVS forum, Exodus Anarchy tapped horn. Erich is out but may do some more kits.

[fastbike1]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

Nothing wrong with the Pony / rss210HF-4 and a 70 watt sub amp as is.. Paul commented recently that he didn't think you needed the 3" vent, but it won't hurt and the tower design easily allows a rea exit w/ 90 degree bend.

Paul,

Having built a few pairs of your speakers I have really come to love the sound of the OS series and my Classix II's. I saw that you had some sub designs and I was looking for a good low cost sub perhaps even a tapped horn. I think two tall skinny subs that would serve double duty as speaker stands for my OS MTM's would be the perfect setup.

I also noticed that you had mentioned that you were going to revise your sub designs. I was most interested in the pony sub. When I saw the dimensions of the pony sub cabinet and the fact that you use a lower cost 70 watt amp to power it and that it seems to dig deep I became very interested.

Do you think you will be revising the plans or coming up with something else? I ask because I want to plan out my sub build next. I would love to build a pair of subs that can dig deep and have no problems reproducing LFE from movies and still remain musical.

Let us know what you think...

Thanks,

Kevin

[kevin007]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

I am not Paul. But,...... could you afford two of these?

https://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=538

Erich H had a tapped horn flat pack for these. I built two and use them as you said, speaker stands. Big thread over at AVS forum, Exodus Anarchy tapped horn. Erich is out but may do some more kits.

My comment about my considering a tapped horn above was based on the Anarchy tapped horn. I was going to order two of them when I went to DIYsoundgroups site and saw they were not available. When I saw Paul's pony sub I thought it might fit the bill.

Do you think the Anarchy tapped horn would make a good HT/music sub? Or will it distort like my current sub when depth charges go off in U571?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin

[djg]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

Read the AVS thread. From memory, these subs will not do extreme HT LFE type duty. From memory again, they are good to about 30HZ. Low power, efficient. They sound very nice for music powered by an old Kenwood power amp off an old Yamaha A/V receiver sub out. I have them in my office at work. I listen to Pandora and radio, never have tried a DVD in the computer, I should. HTH. There is no room in the sub for a plate amp.

[kevin007]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

I am looking for a sub that can dig deep. We use this system as a primarily HT system that also does music. I would say it was a 90/10 HT/Music system. Any suggestions?

Kevin

[djg]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

The sub that Paul C. has pictured with his Swope HT system would be good, IIRC. He wrote it up somewhere but it is not included in the Swope writeup. 10" HiVi, form would do as a speaker stand.

Follow the link to his HTguide writeup, the sub is detailed there.

[Jay1]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

Here's an idea. MCM 8" sub

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/MCM-AUDIO-SELECT-55-2421-/55-2421

In this box, with a 1/2" H 10" W 19" L slot port



You could of course stand the box up with some legs and make the sub down firing. Power handling would be 100 watts with a plate amp featuring a high pass filter, and response looks good with a 80hz low pass in place

[fbov]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

To dig deep, look large sealed.
- large so you get a low F3
- sealed so you get a -12dB/octave slope (or less) below F3 (vented slope is -24dB/octave, and horns even higher)

I have a pair of Anarchy TH and a pair of Tempest X sealed (similar to Umax 15). Anarchy TH keeps up with Tempest quite well, except in max. SPL and ULF extension. The extension difference is subtle, more tactile than audible, and requires the right program. DSOTM SACD shows it nicely. Master and Commander not so much as there's too much going on to notice the slight difference. Conversely, the TH has far more visual appeal than a black 2' cube, and makes for a nice stand. It also needs far less power, 75W for max excursion.

These performance differences are expected, as the TH was designed as a 20Hz horn, and it requires a sharp cut-off filter below tune to prevent overexcursion. The Tempest, in contrast, is -10dB at 20Hz, but only -22dB at 10Hz, absent a low-end cut-off. Granted, I user both with plate amps that include infrasonic filters, so I don't really hit 10Hz... (Oaudio 500 for each Tempest, shared PE BASH 300 for Anarchy TH)

BTW, my Anarchy THs only include 1 flat pack. I built the second from a single 5x5 sheet of 1/2" Baltic Birch, using a table saw and a router-mounted rabbetting bit. I can tell which is which, but you can't. Most all the pieces are the same width; easy to rip. The flat pack dado's are very nice insurance, though...

HAve fun,
Frank

[kevin007]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

To dig deep, look large sealed.
- large so you get a low F3
- sealed so you get a -12dB/octave slope (or less) below F3 (vented slope is -24dB/octave, and horns even higher)

I have a pair of Anarchy TH and a pair of Tempest X sealed (similar to Umax 15). Anarchy TH keeps up with Tempest quite well, except in max. SPL and ULF extension. The extension difference is subtle, more tactile than audible, and requires the right program. DSOTM SACD shows it nicely. Master and Commander not so much as there's too much going on to notice the slight difference. Conversely, the TH has far more visual appeal than a black 2' cube, and makes for a nice stand. It also needs far less power, 75W for max excursion.

These performance differences are expected, as the TH was designed as a 20Hz horn, and it requires a sharp cut-off filter below tune to prevent overexcursion. The Tempest, in contrast, is -10dB at 20Hz, but only -22dB at 10Hz, absent a low-end cut-off. Granted, I user both with plate amps that include infrasonic filters, so I don't really hit 10Hz... (Oaudio 500 for each Tempest, shared PE BASH 300 for Anarchy TH)

BTW, my Anarchy THs only include 1 flat pack. I built the second from a single 5x5 sheet of 1/2" Baltic Birch, using a table saw and a router-mounted rabbetting bit. I can tell which is which, but you can't. Most all the pieces are the same width; easy to rip. The flat pack dado's are very nice insurance, though...

HAve fun,
Frank

I had actually looked into building a auto tuba. But since I dont not have a shop to work from I need the cabinet built or a flat pack. The cabinet for the auto tuba is just to darn much to have made at $350.00. I could buy a 10" titanic kit from DIYsoundgroup for that much. Having the tall skinny sub that is more efficient sounds like the best idea to me since I am limited for space. Having a large sub would not meet WAF or space requirements.

Kevin

[jsr]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

Take a look at my Digger8 design in my sig. It's a taller, skinny cab that may work as a speaker stand for you if you don't mind your speakers being a touch low. It doesn't take up much floor area which is nice. The amp is up to you, though the sub can handle 200W before running out of xmax. It hits an F3 in the low 20s and works great for my bedroom HT setup. Works well for music too since it can hit lower notes that my other small subs can't (and I have some music that goes pretty low). I get most of the LFE from movies, though because of the sharp rolloff past F3 due to the PR design, I don't get the LFE that's in the teens, but low-20s works really well for me (plus most subs that are 3x larger don't hit the teens either). Something to consider.

[kevin007]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

Take a look at my Digger8 design in my sig. It's a taller, skinny cab that may work as a speaker stand for you if you don't mind your speakers being a touch low. It doesn't take up much floor area which is nice. The amp is up to you, though the sub can handle 200W before running out of xmax. It hits an F3 in the low 20s and works great for my bedroom HT setup. Works well for music too since it can hit lower notes that my other small subs can't (and I have some music that goes pretty low). I get most of the LFE from movies, though because of the sharp rolloff past F3 due to the PR design, I don't get the LFE that's in the teens, but low-20s works really well for me (plus most subs that are 3x larger don't hit the teens either). Something to consider.

I like what I see. You mention in the writeup that you were considering using a different PR. Which one would you recommend? Also how has it worked out for you? How has the it worked out for HT duty? LFE off the chart?

Kevin

[jsr]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

I was looking at a AE PR because modeling showed the Dayton PR would exceed xmax at high output (I forgot the exact power level). But thus far, I haven't been able to over-exert the PR, so I never ended up ordering the AE one (which has a long leadtime and a good cost increase). I'd stick with the Dayton one since it works and is cheap. It's been great for my bedroom. Does the low frequencies very well. But it's still a single 8, so it doesn't shake the walls like my twin-large-12" subs in my main HT setup does. But I didn't expect it to. Now, if you build a few of these and place them around the room, then you should have enough surface area to move enough air to start shaking things. My goal was a low cost small sub that performed like a big one (meaning, hitting the really low frequencies...couldn't find anything this size commercially or DIY that hit that low without electronic boost which adds a lot of cost in the amp) because I didn't want to take up floor space and it gave me the option to add more subs with minimal impact to available floor space.

[Altoman188]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

You can use one of BFM smaller tubas. http://billfitzmaurice.net/T18.html
the MCM driver is on sale today for $25 and then all you need is wood and an amp. Can do the TT with the same driver I think and just double it.

[kevin007]

Re: Paul Carmody's Subs

You can use one of BFM smaller tubas. http://billfitzmaurice.net/T18.html
the MCM driver is on sale today for $25 and then all you need is wood and an amp. Can do the TT with the same driver I think and just double it.

I have the plans for the auto tuba and the HT tuba. My problem is that I do not have a shop to make the cabinets. When I checked to see what the cost of the cabinets would be to have made they are fairly expensive. I would like to keep the cost below $200.00 for each sub including parts and cabinet.

Thanks for the suggestion though. I think a pair of Bills subs would be awesome!

Kevin