8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

[Pete Basel]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

I had looked at this one a while ago, and I really liked it's specs...based on Fs, Qts, Vas, and frequency response, it looked like it would be a reasonable substitute for say, an advent or AR 10" woofer....

Yes it probably would be but the cone mass is higher at 56g than either of those.
It would be an upgrade for the AR 10" for sure. It has rather amazing large signal performance.

Are you familiar with the history related to the Swan speaker design in Speaker Builder:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi...over-help.html
The Swan used a Peerless TA305F 12" woofer that went out of production and many
suggested the Eclipse 10" as a replacement claiming that you did not give up much even
though it was a 10" Eventually Madisound cloned the Peerless as the Swan 305, probably
made by Eminence. Here's a .pdf on it, note the high cone mass (110 g):
http://www.madisound.com/pdf/SWAN305eclipse.pdf

The .pdf answers my question confirming that the 10" Eclipse was made by Eminence
originally.

Also sold by Meniscus: http://meniscusaudio.com/eclipse-w1038r-p-567.html

[michiganpat]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

Just noticed this rather old style driver but with much more Xmax. Madisound's
measured response looks reasonably good; I wonder how much smoothing was used:
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...-woofer-8-ohm/

This now says made by Misco, anyone one know if it was previously made by Eminence?
I have the 8" version and thought it had an Eminence number on it.

I had looked at this one a while ago, and I really liked it's specs...based on Fs, Qts, Vas, and frequency response, it looked like it would be a reasonable substitute for say, an advent or AR 10" woofer....

[Pete Basel]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

Dynaudio 21W54, it was interesting that this driver had a 2" voice coil when most of their woofers used larger, in .pdf format:
http://www.gattiweb.com/images/dynaudio/21w54_data.pdf

It had rather short Xmax, they rated it as peak to peak, yet it behaved as if the spec was very conservative.

[Pete Basel]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

classic DANISH design, as this woofer is essentially a ferrite magnet version of the seas 10" used in the dynaco A25 & A35....

And the ceramic magnet version was the one used in the A-25XL.

[michiganpat]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

It's not an eight inch, but Seas makes a 10 inch in the Prestige line that is old school and will work in a 2 way with the Seas TDFC tweeter in a reasonable sized enclosure. It's kind of pricey at around $140 per woofer but the crossover is low count and simple . It's worth reading up on at Seas anyway . The Madisound speaker folks carry it .
Not a classic British design that was originally asked about, but worth running up the flagpole

classic DANISH design, as this woofer is essentially a ferrite magnet version of the seas 10" used in the dynaco A25 & A35....

[Pete Basel]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

The 8" Eclipse driver that was sold by Madisound always sounded very good to me,
even in a 2-way. I believe that it was made by Eminence. The 8" in this picture
looks like it with the inverted dust cap:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=84292.0

It had better large signal performance than any of the classics from Vifa, SEAS or
Peerless. I beleive that the rated Xmax was 8mm and it had a large magnet to help
maintain sensitivity with the large overhang. If anyone knows any details about the
driver I'd like to know. It performed very well right up to and beyond the rated Xmax.
Madisound and Meniscus no longer carry them unfortunately.
Here it is at Meniscus shown as sold out but I don't think they plan to bring it back:
http://meniscusaudio.com/magi-w0838r-p-566.html

[Jay1]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

If you investigate further, the Harbeth monitors that the OP was interested in investigating are also known to have cabinets that are somewhat 'live'. This is considered to be part of their design. Of the old British two-ways that the OP mentioned, none of them have very extensively braced cabinets. I have heard the Harbeths, and their reputation aside, they sound excellent.

If panel resonance is managed carefully so it does not pile up at one frequency, then it can lend a more 'rich' sound to a speaker - that's been my experience. A couple of manufacturers, Onkyo and Kiso Acoustic, have even designed enclosures using techniques developed for designing acoustic guitars.

Just providing a bit more context. The best thing about loudspeaker design is that there's very little consensus, either on how to achieve the end goal or how the end goal should even be defined. Every designer is making their own decisions about what should be optimized, at the expense of whatever else.

There's always a reason for justifying cutting costs on mega buck hifi components... Not saying that's what you were doing, just my viewpoint on the industry.

So Rory, any chance you put those Morel tweeters on the test bench? :D

[[email protected]]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

Almost looks like that Seas A26 with a Morel CAT 378... Really like the part about the box, " the side and rear walls were very lively between 130 and 230Hz, and some lower-level modes were audible higher in frequency. Investigating the cabinet's vibrational behavior with a simple plastic-tape accelerometer revealed very strong modes at 148 and 219Hz"

$12K goes a long way these days...

If you investigate further, the Harbeth monitors that the OP was interested in investigating are also known to have cabinets that are somewhat 'live'. This is considered to be part of their design. Of the old British two-ways that the OP mentioned, none of them have very extensively braced cabinets. I have heard the Harbeths, and their reputation aside, they sound excellent.

If panel resonance is managed carefully so it does not pile up at one frequency, then it can lend a more 'rich' sound to a speaker - that's been my experience. A couple of manufacturers, Onkyo and Kiso Acoustic, have even designed enclosures using techniques developed for designing acoustic guitars.

Just providing a bit more context. The best thing about loudspeaker design is that there's very little consensus, either on how to achieve the end goal or how the end goal should even be defined. Every designer is making their own decisions about what should be optimized, at the expense of whatever else.

[bill poster]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

Kind of remind me of some of the stuff AudioNote makes, all of it ridiculously priced too!
http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/.../an-j_01.shtml

yes, i guess Audionote are the oldskool version of Magico. Great marketing

[Æ]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

How about attempting to "clone" this $12,000 10" 2-way, half joking here, the
DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/d...96-loudspeaker

Kind of remind me of some of the stuff AudioNote makes, all of it ridiculously priced too!
http://www.audionote.co.uk/products/.../an-j_01.shtml

[Æ]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

This looks like a nice 8 incher for a two way system.
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...m-8-wool-cone/

My favorite old school "British" two way was the KLS9 by Noel Keywood.

[Wolf]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

The Airborne uses the same cone sans dust cap as the MCM. It has similar Ts parameters as well (very low Q for example). On the MCM I measured, there is a very tiny wrinkle at 800 or so in the impedance curve, so it might be inherent to the cone material, I don't know.

The Airborne appears to have some type of inductance control, as the impedance does not rise as dramatically as the MCM. Without seeing independent impedance measurements, though, no telling what is going on.

The 4 or 5 db shelf below 1K on the Airborne might be problematic, actually. Baffle step losses on a typical baffle will compound that shelf.

Worked well with my Destinations project...
See attached,
Wolf

[AR3A]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

I don't know if it's worth it to you, but this is most certainly a classic sounding 8" driver, it used to be Vifa and is now made by Scanspeak:

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...fer-poly-cone/

I have a pair of these woofers, think I will try a simple two way.

[Jay1]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

How about attempting to "clone" this $12,000 10" 2-way, half joking here, the
DeVore Fidelity Orangutan O/96:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/d...96-loudspeaker

Actually, something like the Dynaco A-25XL in a much larger normally vented box
such as the size of the Snell Type E would make a lot of sense - tuned around 28-32 Hz.
The O/96 is tuned too high in my opinion.

Almost looks like that Seas A26 with a Morel CAT 378... Really like the part about the box, " the side and rear walls were very lively between 130 and 230Hz, and some lower-level modes were audible higher in frequency. Investigating the cabinet's vibrational behavior with a simple plastic-tape accelerometer revealed very strong modes at 148 and 219Hz"

$12K goes a long way these days...

Back on track. Curious how low that Morel tweeter could be crossed? Might make a good candidate for an 8" 2 way.

[Pete Basel]

Re: 8" woofer suggestion for an excellent british style classic 2-way speaker

Madisound claims that this SEAS 10" is a replacement for the Dynaco A25, probably
the XL version:
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...10-paper-cone/