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  • 3-way build driver suggestions needed

    My brother recently asked me to build him a pair of speakers for his HT system. He said he uses it for probably 90% movies/TV and 10% music. I've been loking things over for about a week or so and thought I might try and go with a small, stand-mounted 3-way unless someone has any better suggestions. Total budget for drivers is under $100. Here is what I am looking at:

    Tweeter: Dayton ND16FA

    Mid: Vifa TC6FD00-04 or Vifa TC9FD-18-08

    Woofer: Peerless 5 1/4" Buyout or Tang Band 5" subwoofer buyout

    I would go ported on the Tang Band mini sub and sealed on the Peerless. What do you guys think? I picked the Vifa mids based on their low distortion and smooth response from Zaph's testing. They should mate easily to the ND16FA, which has very low distortion above 4khz. The Peerless buyout also looks like a really good driver for the price, but it requires a bit of a larger box. I haven't ever seen anyone use the Tang Band mini sub so I don't know anything about it besides the manufacturers specs.

    Any other suggestions for drivers in a small 3-way under $100? Are there any better 2-way options out there for this price?
    -Kerry

  • #2
    Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

    Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
    My brother recently asked me to build him a pair of speakers for his HT system. He said he uses it for probably 90% movies/TV and 10% music. I've been loking things over for about a week or so and thought I might try and go with a small, stand-mounted 3-way unless someone has any better suggestions. Total budget for drivers is under $100. Here is what I am looking at:

    Tweeter: Dayton ND16FA

    Mid: Vifa TC6FD00-04 or Vifa TC9FD-18-08

    Woofer: Peerless 5 1/4" Buyout or Tang Band 5" subwoofer buyout

    I would go ported on the Tang Band mini sub and sealed on the Peerless. What do you guys think? I picked the Vifa mids based on their low distortion and smooth response from Zaph's testing. They should mate easily to the ND16FA, which has very low distortion above 4khz. The Peerless buyout also looks like a really good driver for the price, but it requires a bit of a larger box. I haven't ever seen anyone use the Tang Band mini sub so I don't know anything about it besides the manufacturers specs.

    Any other suggestions for drivers in a small 3-way under $100? Are there any better 2-way options out there for this price?

    I'd suggest going with a 2-way design, and use a larger woofer. A 3-way x-over will typically cost somewhat more than a 2-way x-over. Peerless has a 6.5" that's $20. I've not heard it, so I can't comment on quality. I like the Vifa BC25SC06-04 ??? horn type tweeter.
    I have used 5.25" 2-ways for mains. They were built with Peerless HDS drivers, and worked well in my room. The GFC version has a very nice midrange. I have a x-over design for it and the Vifa if you needed help in that department. The buyout Peerless has a sandwich cone, and may sound good for the money.
    There's no mention of shorting rings, so the motor design is not as advanced as the HDS drivers. I have a couple 831735 drivers I could sell you. My current mains use this driver. This x-over is rather complex, although a simpler design could also be used.

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    • #3
      Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

      What you brother needs is three front channels....making "nice speakers" for the left and right channels does nothing for the sound quality of the theater when the center is a weak link. Yuo'd get better results with a $100 center channel than making a pair of speakers, especially when theater is the primary use.

      Just flip your concept, instead or 2 three ways go 3 two ways and use the Peerless buyout and whatever tweeter grabs you that fits the budget. If the Peeless is OEM then it will likely have a smooth response so should be no problem matching a tweeter with it and a pretty straight forward build.


      Why don't you build him three Choti's? You already have that figured out.

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      • #4
        Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

        Let me specify a little more on his situation. He just bought a Klipsch sub and then a set of Yamaha 5 channel surrounds on Craigslist. He purchased a 7.1 or 7.2 receiver a few days before this. He is wanting two speakers to finish out his 7 channel surround. The mains will only need to go down to 60-80hz, since he will always be using his sub. He is not really very into audio stuff, so he will most likely never listen to this as a 2-channel system. I'm hoping to make them good enough though, that he will be able to hear a big difference between what he's go now and what I build him. After that, maybe he will care a little bit more. If it were me, I would definitely go with a bigger woofer for some solid bass output, but for him I don't think it will matter too much.
        -Kerry

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

          Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
          Let me specify a little more on his situation. He just bought a Klipsch sub and then a set of Yamaha 5 channel surrounds on Craigslist. He purchased a 7.1 or 7.2 receiver a few days before this. He is wanting two speakers to finish out his 7 channel surround. The mains will only need to go down to 60-80hz, since he will always be using his sub. He is not really very into audio stuff, so he will most likely never listen to this as a 2-channel system. I'm hoping to make them good enough though, that he will be able to hear a big difference between what he's go now and what I build him. After that, maybe he will care a little bit more. If it were me, I would definitely go with a bigger woofer for some solid bass output, but for him I don't think it will matter too much.
          The 5.25" GFC is on sale for $36, and would be at the top of my list of suggestions for your build. The Vifa tweeter is about $16.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

            Originally posted by DE Focht View Post
            What you brother needs is three front channels....making "nice speakers" for the left and right channels does nothing for the sound quality of the theater when the center is a weak link. Yuo'd get better results with a $100 center channel than making a pair of speakers, especially when theater is the primary use.

            Just flip your concept, instead or 2 three ways go 3 two ways and use the Peerless buyout and whatever tweeter grabs you that fits the budget. If the Peeless is OEM then it will likely have a smooth response so should be no problem matching a tweeter with it and a pretty straight forward build.


            Why don't you build him three Choti's? You already have that figured out.
            I'd rather have a great pair of left and right and have no center at all. In fact, I had a center that I got rid of after telling the receiver that there was no center channel and it then created a phantom center using the left and right mains. I'd take the budget for 3 speakers and put them into excellent left and right mains and forget the center. Unless the left and right mains are very far apart, the phantom center created by the receiver works exceedingly well, to the point that I don't ever think about getting a center channel.

            He's picked excellent drivers for the mids. Those little Vifas are very clean.

            Go for a good pair of 3-ways and lose the center channel altogether.
            R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
            Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

            95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
            "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

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            • #7
              Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

              I'd rather have a great pair of left and right and have no center at all. In fact, I had a center that I got rid of after telling the receiver that there was no center channel and it then created a phantom center using the left and right mains. I'd take the budget for 3 speakers and put them into excellent left and right mains and forget the center. Unless the left and right mains are very far apart, the phantom center created by the receiver works exceedingly well, to the point that I don't ever think about getting a center channel.

              He's picked excellent drivers for the mids. Those little Vifas are very clean.

              Go for a good pair of 3-ways and lose the center channel altogether.
              I like the vifa mid too, but I think a 2-way is more practical due to x-over costs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                Originally posted by DE Focht View Post
                What you brother needs is three front channels....making "nice speakers" for the left and right channels does nothing for the sound quality of the theater when the center is a weak link. Yuo'd get better results with a $100 center channel than making a pair of speakers, especially when theater is the primary use.

                Just flip your concept, instead or 2 three ways go 3 two ways and use the Peerless buyout and whatever tweeter grabs you that fits the budget. If the Peeless is OEM then it will likely have a smooth response so should be no problem matching a tweeter with it and a pretty straight forward build.


                Why don't you build him three Choti's? You already have that figured out.
                I tried to sell him on the center first but he really wanted the two mains. If they turn out good enough, he might end up asking for a center. Part of he reason I don't want to build the Choti for him is that I'd like to try another design, having only one of my own under my belt.
                Last edited by Navy Guy; 06-19-2013, 10:04 AM.
                -Kerry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                  Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                  I tried to sell him on the center first but he really wanted the two mains. If they turn out good enough, he might end up asking for a center. Part of he reason I don't want to build the Choti for him is that I'd like to another design, having only one of my own under my belt.
                  The mid you chose has a very extended response, so the crossover will likely be very simple. We just built a HUGE 3-way and used a total of 8 components for the crossover, 2nd order acoustic slopes all through. With the right baffle makeup so that you can align the tweeter and mid acoustic centers, I think you could pull off something very similar.

                  And if you can, take up rpb's offer on the 831735 woofers. They would make dynamite woofers in your 3-ways.
                  R = h/(2*pi*m*c) and don't you forget it! || Periodic Table as redrawn by Marshall Freerks and Ignatius Schumacher || King Crimson Radio
                  Byzantium Project & Build Thread || MiniByzy Build Thread || 3 x Peerless 850439 HDS 3-way || 8" 2-way - RS28A/B&C8BG51

                  95% of Climate Models Agree: The Observations Must be Wrong
                  "Gravitational systems are the ashes of prior electrical systems.". - Hannes Alfven, Nobel Laureate, Plasma physicist.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                    The mid you chose has a very extended response, so the crossover will likely be very simple. We just built a HUGE 3-way and used a total of 8 components for the crossover, 2nd order acoustic slopes all through. With the right baffle makeup so that you can align the tweeter and mid acoustic centers, I think you could pull off something very similar.

                    And if you can, take up rpb's offer on the 831735 woofers. They would make dynamite woofers in your 3-ways.
                    The only thing that makes me worry about the shallow slopes is the tweeter doesn't have very extended response. It might be worth the extra $5 to go with the Vifa tweeter since it extends a little lower, but I can't find any distortion measurements to see how well it measures.
                    -Kerry

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                      Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                      The only thing that makes me worry about the shallow slopes is the tweeter doesn't have very extended response. It might be worth the extra $5 to go with the Vifa tweeter since it extends a little lower, but I can't find any distortion measurements to see how well it measures.
                      That would concern me as well. Especially as it will limit your max SPL. And for HT SPL matters! However the mid is already pretty limited in terms of SPL. The curves look good but I think they would be much better in an MTM.
                      Salem

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                      • #12
                        Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                        How about one of the budget wave guide designs?

                        http://www.diysoundgroup.com/forum/index.php?board=20.0
                        Currently resigned to living in balmy Zephyrhills, FL with the snow birds.
                        Howard H

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                        • #13
                          Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                          Originally posted by Navy Guy View Post
                          The only thing that makes me worry about the shallow slopes is the tweeter doesn't have very extended response. It might be worth the extra $5 to go with the Vifa tweeter since it extends a little lower, but I can't find any distortion measurements to see how well it measures.
                          GFC and Vifa. This was a crude x-over I made while troubleshooting a design that used a different woofer. (I swapped woofers.) The filter was not completed, so thats the reason there are some lumps.
                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                            I think this is the Vifa tweeter I mentioned. Not 100% sure though. I have a filter on it to try to flatten the lower end of the response, so this is not a raw measurement.

                            It's hard to get really accurate distortion measurements. If you change the setup, which I have, everything changes. I think the Vifa is a great tweeter.
                            Attached Files

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                            • #15
                              Re: 3-way build driver suggestions needed

                              Wow that vifa does look great. Small faceplate, good power handling and sensitivity too! Do you have any off axis measurements?

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